Success – The Fourth Level of Real Estate Investing | 422

Success – The Fourth Level of Real Estate Investing | 422

Fourth Level of Real Estate Investing

Matt Theriault and Epic Real Estate are proud to present The Six Levels of Real Estate Investing! Today, Matt shares the fourth level of real estate investing: success. Tune in to learn the traits of investors on the fourth level, which parts of your business need the most attention at this point, and specific steps you can take to make it on to the fifth level of real estate investing.

Fourth Level of Real Estate Investing

What You Will Learn About Success – The Fourth Level of Real Estate Investing:

  • What the fourth level of real estate investing is
  • How to get to the fifth level
  • Exact steps to take your business to the next level
  • How much money you need to be making to be considered “in the success phase”
  • Traits of a fourth-level investor
  • How to overcome the vulnerabilities of the fourth level
  • Recommended resources for fourth level-ers
  • The difference between delegating and abdigating
  • Which parts of your business to focus on for the greatest chance of success
  • How to create a valuable network to drive your business forward

Whenever you’re ready, here are a few ways we can help:

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Matt Theriault: Hey Rockstar. Today’s episode brought to you by the professionals over at Lighthouse Advocates where they’ve been rescuing businesses in the nick of time for more than 20 years. If you need help with marketing strategy or wealth strategy or tax planning or CFO services. Business innovation, bookkeeping, payroll services, project management. Just about anything to do with your small business Lighthouse Advocates team of professional is your resource to whatever the rough seas of life are throwing at your business they’ll bring you safely into shore. So go to and request a business acceleration session. It’s free, you won’t be pitched, you won’t be sold. You’ll merely be pointed toward the right solution for you. When your there tell the team that Epic send you and you get a little extra special attention. All righty.

Now, on with today’s show.

Speaker 1: This is Theriault Media.

Matt Theriault: Yeah. Hello, and welcome to the Epic Real Estate Investing show. Yeah. Did a little too much there I think.

This is where we meet here each and every week to share tips, strategies, advice, and wisdom from some of the greatest minds the business of real estate has to offer. If you haven’t done so already please click the subscribe button for the show so you never miss an episode. We’ve got some big things on the way. If you like what we’ve done up to this point you’re going to love what we got coming. Then make your way over to Instagram to follow us @EpicRealEstate. When you’re there make sure you turn the notifications on. If you look up in the right-hand corner you see three little dots, just click there and and you’re little … This little drop-down menu. Turn those notifications on as I’ll be giving away the best of the best books from our guests that have appeared on our Thought Leader Thursday episodes. I’ll be doing these book giveaways multiple times a week all summer long. You know what they say, a formal education will make you a living and self-education will make you a fortune. So I’m doing what I can to help contribute to your fortune.

There’s no catch here, by the way, I went and I didn’t even get the books for free. I went to Amazon, I bought them all on my own. So this is all on my dime. I’m not even going to ask you to pay for shipping or anything like that. I just want to send you the book and I want to empower and impact what you got going on right now and help you build your fortune.

But I don’t have unlimited quantities of these books. I didn’t buy all of the books I just got a bunch of them. So that’s why you want to turn on your notifications, so when I post one of those posts on Instagram you’re going to be the first to know, you can go right over there and you can claim yours. All righty. So the first … It’s going to be first come, first serve.

All righty. So, what else? So, there’s a few free tickets left for the upcoming Epic Intensive in Boston. The free ones. We got a lot of tickets left for the event. We’ve actually got a bigger room so we’re going to be able to accommodate more people. But if you want one of the free tickets, if you’d like to join us, make your way over to for all the details and grab one of those free tickets before we slap a big price tag on them. All righty.

Got a great show for you today. As we continue our way up the six levels of real estate investing, removing the cliché out of going to the next level. You hear that so frequently, “Hey, I need to take it to the next level. I’m moving to the next level. Hey, we got to raise this up to the next level.” It’s such a cliché and no one really knows what that means. But I’m helping you move up. I’m giving you literally action steps to take. Literal action steps and to do’s to move you to the next level regardless of which level you’re on right now. All righty.

So, last week we went over everything that you’re experiencing and feeling in the third levels. The stability phase of your business. Then we went over the vulnerabilities that you have there. What you’ve got to be cautious of and where those booby traps are in that phase. Then what there is to actually do about it to protect you from those vulnerabilities, to protect you from those traps so you can maintain your progress and get to today’s phase, the next phase. This is the fourth level of real estate investing. The success phase.

Now the success phase, you’re in this phase if you’re making, I don’t know, $20-50,000 a month means you’re probably doing four to six deals a month and you’re working a lot. Yeah. You’re working overtime. What’s happening right now for you is things are going well. You’re noticing your cash reserves, those are starting to grow a little bit. Your systems have noticeably improved and business is running more efficiently. You’ve probably got an employee or two by now. But you’re still probably working more hours than you ever have, and your lead generation is working. You’ve got more leads than you can respond to on your own. You probably have a rental property of two by now as well. And then because of the money that you’re making you’re starting to think of your tax liability. Those are starting to become a real concern because now you’re making real money and there’s a lot more of it that Uncle Sam can come and take away from you. So, those are starting to be a concern.

But you’ve become the market expert. You know your stuff, and you know your market. And creditability in your relationships, those are starting to lead to access to cash. You’re doing well in those strategic relationships that you’ve built and you’re becoming a credible person, a person of value there. That’s starting to lead to access to cash. People want to … Money is attracted to where you are right now. As you’re looking at this, as much money as you are making you are a little bit surprised of how much you’re actually keeping. Likely not as much as you’d like, or not as much as you had imagined once you’ve hit this income level. There’s not as much left over as you thought there would be.

Your friends and your family, you’re probably noticing that they’re thinking you’re much richer than you actually are. Certainly, you’ve got some money in the bank but you’ve got a lot of responsibilities. You’ve got some overhead and a lot of that stuff just has to be paid by somebody. And you’re the ones making the big bucks right now so you’re paying it. It’s getting a little bit tough because of those dynamics. It gets a little tough to find anyone that can relate to you, right. You’ve got these big numbers and these big checks, and this money that’s flowing into your bank account but you’ve got an elevated sense of responsibility. You’ve got people that you’re thinking about, you’ve got business to run, you’ve got vendors to pay. There’s not a whole lot of people in your circle, if any, that can relate and are experiences those same types of challenges.

So that’s what’s happening, and what you’re feeling. I mean, you’ve got these mixed emotions. It’s always a mixed emotion thing. You’re like, you’ve got this feeling of accomplishment, right. You’ve got … you’re feeling really … I don’t know, you’re starting to feel a little bit invincible. You’re starting to drink your own Kool-Aide. You’re proud. You’re realizing that you can’t work much more than you already are so you’re kind of wondering, “How do I get to the next level? I can’t do any more than I’m doing right now.” So, you’ve got this sense of … Probably you’ve got this sense of overwhelm. You’re not sure what to do to get to the next level without totally imploding. You have to sleep sometime, right?

So, if you feel that 80-100% of what I just shared with you describes you, it doesn’t have to be 100% but if just 80% describes in your situation I just want you to know that you’re … To be acknowledged and admired for you, for your entering the 1%. You’ve entered the 1%. You’re doing what 99% of the population is, or has been, unable to do. You are achieving financial independence. You are financially independent. You don’t need anybody else for your existence financially. You’re positioning yourself to significantly accelerate your journey to financial freedom. That’s amazing, and you did that. You need to be acknowledged for that. You need to be admired for that. Ultimately, what’s happening right now is you are making a difference for your family. You’ve changed the course of your families financial future. That takes a really amazing, powerful person to do. That’s who you are, all right? So, awesome. Congrats for being here.

Now, where you’re vulnerable, right. So here’s where you’re vulnerable. You’re a little bit in danger of abdicating and losing control, right? Delegating is good, abdicating is bad. Delegating is you give somebody else, or assign somebody else a task or responsibility to carry out on your behalf. But abdicating is you give it to them and you just walk the other way and hope for the best, that they do it right and you don’t monitor them you don’t help them you don’t assist you don’t manage that situation.

So, when you hit this sense of overwhelm abdicating can be a real danger. This is going to be a vulnerability for you for a while. Because you’re so overwhelmed you’re, like, can someone else please just do this part? Once you assign it to that person you feel like it’s taken care of and you go on about your business and totally forget about it. Because you feel like it’s taken care of. Like you’ve scratched that off your to-do list. That’s abdicating, and you can lose control and that could come to bite you in the butt really, really badly.

Because you’re overwhelmed and you’re growing and you’ve reached this level of success you’re in a little bit of danger of over-hiring. When you over-hire you inflate your overhead, and you’re making more, making more, making more but your expenses are rising right along with it. All righty, so it’s almost like just being broke at a higher level. There’s a danger here of doing that. There’s a danger of because you’re overwhelmed and because … And this could be fueled by your overwhelm, or just your desire to grow and to go to that next level and move faster. Is, you can hire too fast. You can hire too fast and fail to invest enough time in training your team. That can be a recipe for disaster. Well, I mean the abdicating and the over-hiring and inflating the overhead and hiring too fast and then not investing enough time in your team all of those kind of go hand in hand and they can pull you back. They can actually really slow you down. So be cautious of that.

Then, kind of mentioned this already but you’re vulnerable to … Friends and family can’t relate to your challenges. Right? So, when you don’t have anybody to turn to you can start guessing and that can be dangerous. You’ve got little to no tax planning, you’re not being proactive about it, you’re vulnerable there. The volume of business that you’re doing, and the volume of revenue that you’re creating, that volume is creating complexity in your business. It’s becoming more complex when it should be getting more simple. The other part of it is if you have all this working up in your space, now you’re seeing everything as an opportunity. You’ve got some money, you feel accomplished, and now there’s this thing over there I could go take advantage of that. I could go take advantage of this. You’re just really tempted to go wide before going deep with what’s already working. You’re complicating things just by looking at those opportunities. You see everything as an opportunity. “Oh, I could do this, I could do that because I’ve done this already. So, of course, I could do it.” All right. So, what happens is with your focus when it gets diluted it’s almost impossible to get to the next level.

So, what there is to do. Focus. Focus the big one. But some specific things I want you to focus on. I want you to focus on leveraged sales. Right? You’ve got these leads coming in, your lead generation is working but there’s too many leads for you to really respond to on your own. So I want you to focus on leveraging the sales. You’ve leveraged your lead generation now you need to leverage the conversion of those leads. You want to hire someone to convert your leads to contracts. You need an acquisition person, or maybe even an acquisition team. Depending on your lead generation volume. But at this point, it’s time to put someone in that place for you.

It’s time for some sophisticated tax planning. You’re making some money and now it’s … you know, if you’ve been using Turbo Tax or going to H&R Block it’s time to step that up. Okay, because you’re paying way to much. You might save money on the actual tax planning but you’re paying a whole more then you have to to the government.

It’s time to look for a professional network, or a mastermind to join. It’s really important for you to be more intentional about who you spend your professional and personal time with. Because you’re experiencing a whole new world that your current network, or your previous network, your family and your friends and your associates when you got started they’re not going to be able to assist you. They’re not going to be able to relate. So you got to be really intentional about who you spend your professional and personal time with. So look for a professional networker, a real estate investing group or a real estate investing mastermind. Something like that to surround yourself with people that can identify with what you’re going through. Someone that can offer assistance when you need it.

You want to stay focused on what’s working. Stay focused on the stuff that’s working for you and do more of it. Dig in. Resist the temptation to disperse your focus. Resist that temptation to go wide. Go deeper with what is working. Okay. It feels like, “I need to do this, I need to that, and I need this.” But resist that. Stay focused on working going deeper and get better at it.

I want you to create more and refine your existing SOPs, your standard operating procedures. This stage right here, it’s all about focusing on doing less to make more. Really to get to the next level from success up to scale it’s all about … It’s not about adding things, it’s about subtracting things. It’s about doing less to make more. If you don’t narrow your focus it’s almost impossible to get to that next level.

I want you to hire a personal assistant for your personal stuff. Like your dry cleaning, your grocery shopping, your travel arrangements, your house cleaning. We just hired a cook and its just been so liberating. But hire a personal assistant at this level for your personal stuff. That’s going to have such a huge impact. Because right now you are managing a business, you’re managing some employees, you’re managing your clients and your customers. And those personal things they can add an additional stress on you or they just don’t flat out get done. And you don’t want your personal life to start suffering because the professional life is succeeding. So hire a personal assistant.

Now, right now it’s really important to firmly make it your intent to hold everything. Every single property, it is your intent to hold it. Then you’ll flip quickly what doesn’t fit your portfolios criteria. All righty. You don’t have to hold everything but it should be your intent. Every time the phone rings, “Oop, I’m going to add another one to my investment portfolio right now.” That should be the intent. And once you find out, “Hey, this is not going to be a good fit for my portfolio.” Then flip it quickly, okay. If it doesn’t fit your portfolios criteria flip it.

You want to start leveraging your credibility within your relationships to get access to cash. To get access to private money. You want to start building that access up. You want to start having that at the ready. It’s time to keep your eyes and your ears open for a manager that, essentially, replaces your day to day activities so you can shift to working more on the business rather than in it. Right? You’ve built this ship. Your responsibility now is to steer it to the next level. Right? It’s time for you to get out of the engine room. So, keep your eyes and ears open. It might not happen in this phase, it might happen in the next phase. But now it’s time to start keeping your eyes and ears open for that person that’s going to essentially replace you. You’re going to create redundancy in your business of you. You’re going to try to replace yourself. But it’s going to take a unique person, a special person. So you might not be able to do it in this phase but it’s time for you to start looking for that person. At least have an idea of what you’re looking for, all right.

You’re going to look for full-time rock stars for your team members now. Not just people that can get the job done. You want to look for rock stars. I mean, you may have to check your ego here as well and be open to that … There are people out there that are better than you are at certain things. Those are the people that you want. Even if you pay them more then what you’re paying yourself. I have two employees that I pay more than I pay myself. I am receiving the benefit of that. They’re happy, we’re progressing, we’re moving forward. So consider that you may have to do that, okay.

I’ve made all of my best hires if you’re thinking of hiring … I went to Indeed. I’ve got my last several employees from You’re going to have a lot to choose from. So be very detailed in your job description and create some sort of process to send people through before you ever even speak to them. Here’s why, because you’re going to get a ton of responses. It’s amazing how many people there are out there looking for work. Equally, it’s amazing on how many people there are out there looking for work will get stopped by the smallest little task that you ask them to do prior to the interview process. So you can eliminate all of those people. You don’t have to go through all of the people, and you actually don’t want to either. But, you can get rid of all the tire kickers. Get rid of all the time wasters.

One of the things that we do when people apply is that we just have a list of 10 activities to do. 10 action steps to take. A lot of those action steps are in there … They’re going to tell us certain things. Are they technologically inclined? Up they up with current events? Do they have a sense of humor even? Do they have any sort of resourcefulness or ingenuity? What else? How are their communication skills, and how are they at following directions? So all those types of things that we kind of came up with a little list of those things. Boy, that thins the herd really, really quickly. It’s amazing how many people out there looking for a job, or dying for their job and you ask them to go to this website, print out a document fill it out and send it back to us and their like, “Oh, no. Hey, that’s too much for you to ask me to do for free. Are you kidding me?” Anyway. Let me get off my soapbox here. But, anyway., its been very effective for us.

Then you want to start now assessing your current business entity. Assessing your asset protection. Assessing your legal structure. Are you set up correctly to grow? You want to put attention on your business and you legal foundation. You want to look at your trademarks if you have any. You want to look at insurance, make sure you got enough, make sure that you’re not overpaying. You want to look at the contracts that you’re using. You really want to start looking at … because you’re building something. You’ve built something now that’s … You know, you don’t want to lose. So you want to start looking at kind of how you can protect that in your business and legal foundation.

You want to shift your focus now to impact your team. You want to impact your team. To get the success it was … To get to this point it was all about how do you make yourself better. So, going from success to the next level, to the scale level which we’ll talk about next week. Going from success to scale, that’s all about “How do you make your team better?” Up to this point it was how do you make yourself better? Moving forward is how do you make your team better?

You need to start considering and thinking about, investing in the training of the capabilities of your team. Investing in their training, investing in honing their skills and that’s to benefit you. That’s what’s going to move you to the next level. You can’t do this all by yourself. You really have reached a level where you’re going to need eight more hours a day to work but you’re probably already sleeping those eight hours and you’re not going to get forward by yourself. So you got to make an investment in your team, and so you can focus on your unique abilities. To focus on your strengths. To focus on your talents. To focus on your genius. To focus on the things that you like to do. The things that you’re good at. Then at this point, I want you to give yourself a raise. It’s time for a raise. I want you to give yourself a raise and I want you to start automating deductions to savings and taxes. Have a separate account for savings, a separate account for taxes and start just automating those deductions so they happen automatically.

Some key questions to ask yourself for some additional insights and actions at this level: ask yourself is your business model right now as it exists, is it driving consistent growth? Is it driving sustainable income? Is there anything there for you to do? Another question to ask yourself: do you have the right people doing the right things? You might have great people, you might have great team members but are they doing the right things? The things that they like to do, the things that they’re good at. Are you happy with everyone on your team? If you had to fire everybody today who would you rehire back in the morning? And who would you not? If you wouldn’t rehire them back, how so? Why not?

Another question is: How can you spend more time in your genius and unique ability? Your unique ability? How can you spend more time there? Ask yourself what’s your greatest opportunity for inner expansion? What are you avoiding looking inside of yourself or your business? Where are you avoiding looking inside there? What is some stuff, like, “I know that needs my attention but I don’t even want to look at it right now.” I have one of those things right now, just made me think of it. I got to attend to that. I’m going to do that right after I done recording this.

But we all have these things that we want to avoid, that we don’t like to deal with. That are uncomfortable, it’s awkward and, you know, where is one of those things in your business? Or maybe there’s multiple things. Or maybe it’s inside of yourself. All right. Then based off your answers to all of these key questions, what are some actions that you could take based off of these new insights?

All right. So I gave you a list of actions to take. I gave you a list of questions there to ask yourself to maybe inspire some additional actions that are specific and personal to you. Take all of those to heart, okay.

Recommended resources: book purchase. Actually, I got two books that you should purchase. One is ‘Profit First’ by Michael Michalowicz, or Michalowicz. Not sure if it’s Micha or Misha. But Michalowicz. ‘Profit First’ much easier to search. But, go there … You know, some of the more impactful books that I’ve read over my life that have got me to where I am today professionally, one was ‘Awaken the Giant Within’ by Tony Robbins. Love the book, read it several times. I was reading it every year for a while. Haven’t read it, it’s probably time for me to pick it back up. My copy is so tattered and torn, think I’ll buy a new copy right now. I’ll do that.

Then, that one. Obviously, ‘Rich Dad, Poor Dad’, it just kind of opened my eyes up to entire … The world of passive income and how to create it. And just kind of gave me a formula of what does it take to escape the rat race. That was impactful. The other one is ‘The Slight Edge’ by Jeff Olson. I think that’s probably the secret to my success if there were such a thing as a secret. It’s a really quick read. ‘The Slight Edge’. And then ‘The Dip’ was really good by Seth Godin, another really small book. That’ll put some perspective on what you’re going through right now regardless of which level you’re on.

So this book ‘Profit First’. So I just named you the three or four most impactful books, but this book ‘Profit First’ is probably the first one in a long time, like, “Ah, this is one that I’ll always mention from this point forward.” It’s just making sure that while you are growing you are making money. You’re not growing, and growing, and growing for the sake of growth. And you’re not any better off financially for it after you’ve done such massive growth. ‘Profit First’ get that book.

Next book. He was a guest here on the show, Brian Elwood. He wrote a small little book on how to fire yourself from the acquisition side of your business. The book was called ‘Fire Yourself’, we’ll be giving that book away on Instagram, or just go to Amazon and pick yourself up a copy. But that’s one of the things that you’re to do in this phase is you got to look at … Start look at leverage sales, to hire people and start building an acquisition team. So, Brian’s got a great book on that.

Then, ‘Tax Hacker’. Go to for your Tax Action Blueprint. If you’ve been putting it off, if you’ve been procrastinating your tax plan and your tax strategy like most Americans do now’s the time to go. No excuses. If you’re at this level, you’re making this type of money you’ve got to go. All right. So go to, request your Tax Action Blueprint.

Then, as far as looking for masterminds I invite you to look into Epic Inner Circle Mastermind. You can go to, fill out that application there. Share a little bit of information about yourself and we’ll get you the details on that. But you got to really start being intentional about who you’re spending your time with at this point. You’ve got to be able to spend time with people that can relate to what you are going through and who have been there, who have done that and who can help you get to the next spot that you need to go to. To can bust through your roadblocks. To bust through those barriers. To bust through those challenges that you are experiencing. To eliminate all those vulnerabilities we talked about. All right. So you can go to and get some more info on that.

All righty. So, that’s it for the success level, the fourth phase. We’ll get to the fifth phase next week. Yeah, that’s it for today. So if you would like to continue this journey keep listening. I’ll be here next week and we’ll go over the fifth phase of scaling. If you’d like to go fast, go to

God bless. To your success. I’m Matt Theriault, living the dream.

Matt Theriault

Real estate investor and educator.