How to Settle with the IRS (without paying) | 545

How to Settle with the IRS (without paying) | 545

Settle with the IRS

Are you terrified because you owe money to Uncle Sam? Today we are telling you how to settle with the IRS. Besides showing you the way out of the problem, we are also telling you how you can make them pay you back the money they took from you. Learn what the currently non-collectible concept is, how much you are allowed to earn in order to get the CNC status, and what your options are if you do not qualify for it.

Settle with the IRS

What You Will Learn About How to Settle with the IRS (without paying):

  • What your options are if you owe the money to the IRS
  • The definition of currently non-collectible
  • The power of this concept
  • A personal CNC story
  • The case study – how to deal with Uncle Sam step by step
  • What income qualifies you for the currently non-collectible status
  • What expenses you are allowed to cover before the IRS can touch your income
  • How you can get the CNC status even if you owe a substantial sum to the IRS
  • How a small business owner can benefit from this concept
  • The example of how you can inherit a lot of money and still qualify for non-collectible
  • What the CSED is, how long it lasts, and what happens after the non-collectible status expires
  • What if you do not qualify for the CNC 

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Speaker 1: This is Theriault Media.

Did you know that up to 50% of your lifetime income will be wiped out by taxes? What if you could stop this madness? Isn’t it about time you play on a level playing field with the wealthiest 1%? Now you can. Tim Berry, Attorney at Law, shares here, each and every week, current tactics and strategies that anyone can implement to hack the tax code, protect your assets, and keep what’s rightfully yours. It’s time for Tax Hacker Tuesday.

Tim Berry: Everybody’s going to have a different solution.

Bernie Gartland: A reasonable person-

Tim: Now, what are some of the options for the people who are living their quiet life of desperation, who are terrified that they owe the IRS money? What are the options available to them?

Bernie: Well, there are several options, but let me also elaborate on something, which is very interesting. I’m kind of smiling because a lot of people don’t know this, that there can be two master files, and the IRS doesn’t tell you there are two master files. They put a little asterisk. So in other words, I send for the blueprint, in a lot of cases, I get back the blueprint, and I go, “Wait a minute. There’s another file, maybe on the spouse or a different time period for this person.”

In other words, you’ve got to notice stuff to get this information so that we can go to the next step. Remember, I told you what I usually talk to Mr. and Mrs. Smith. I say, “Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it’s a three-part problem-solving process. One, let’s send for the blueprint, let’s analyze the information, gather up information that you’re going to give us also after the analysis of it, do the tax returns, and then I’m going to sit down with you, Mr. and Mrs, Smith, and I’m going to tell you what your options are, and here are your options.”

Number one, don’t do anything. Okay? Now, we got the tax returns prepared and filed and you owe this amount of money. Don’t do anything. In fact, and here’s what I tell the clients, in fact, call up the IRS and say, “Listen, I owe you a great deal of money. You’ve got my tax returns, now go to blazes.” And I say, “If you do that, then they’re going to destroy you.” And the other two guys I was talking about with the glasses and the gun here and everything. They’re going to show up at my front door, so doing nothing is not a very good option. Okay?

Option number two, beg, borrow, steal. I don’t care where you get the money from. Pay the taxes.

Next option is an installment agreement, commonly referred to as an IA. That’s where you analyze what your income and expenses are, and if you have money left over, we set up an installment agreement. We negotiate an installment agreement with the IRS.

Bernie: The next option is, put the key in the front door and disappear for 10 years, then you don’t owe it anymore, and I have clients that are doing that, by the way.

The next option is called a negotiating settlement with the Internal Revenue Service, and there are certain hoops you have to jump to get this, and we’ll cover this in another module. Okay?

The next option is to file a chapter seven bankruptcy. Hello? I did say file a chapter seven bankruptcy. Well, what good is that going to do?

And then the final option is called currently non-collectible, and that’s where the IRS puts you in an uncollectible category and leaves you alone, and by the way, that’s federal law.

Tim: Now, you say the IRS puts you in an uncollectible category. Does that mean they take off the liens and they stop the levies? What does that mean exactly?

Bernie: The liens will stay.

Tim: Liens will stay on the property?

Bernie: The liens will stay, unless, and until, the tax debt is paid or that there is a statute of limitations, and then the liens are removed, but if a person, a lot of people now don’t even have any houses, so liens filed don’t really mean anything because they only mean something if you have equity in your house anyway, but levies are stopped immediately.

In other words, if somebody comes into me and says to me, “I got this levy on my wage.” Okay? “And I don’t have any money. I don’t have any money to pay the rent, the telephone, the gas, electric, whatever, what can you do?” I get information from them on special forms that I have, I contact the IRS, and I say to the IRS, “My client qualifies for CNC current a non-collectible.” We, in the field, call it a code 53. Alright. And they say, “Okay, send us the information on this form that you’ve filled out with supporting document.” And they put the client in an uncollectible category and leave them alone.

In fact, in October of ’06, remember I talked about the Internal Affairs and the Treasury Inspector General, they issued a publication that basically says, “Once you determine a CNC, you are put them in an uncollectible, and no person, active personnel, is to work the case unless there is additional information in the future.”

Tim: Now, Bernie, the power of this currently not collectible, I don’t think many people understand how powerful this is. Bernie, let me tell you or share with you, the power of this currently not collectible. Well, I’m an attorney, I’m a tax attorney. My father-in-law had some tax challenges and it got so bad that the IRS started levying his wages.

Now, he’s a plumber and he was making about $35,000.00, $40,000.00 a year, and the IRS took every single dime of his paycheck, except for they left him $150.00 a week. $150.00 a week, $600.00 a month. That’s not too good of a standard of living for the guy. So, obviously, he picks up the phone, he calls me up and says, “Tim, you married my daughter, you’re a tax attorney, you’ve got to help me out.”

Now, I’ve got to tell you, I don’t deal in tax problem solving like Bernie does. Bernie’s the man on this. So, obviously, who do I go to, to get some help in my father-in-law’s situation? I go to Bernie and Bernie says, “Oh, that’s really simple. All you need to do is have your father-in-law declared as a currently not collectible account.

So we go through the hoopla, the rigmarole, and we get my father-in-law declared as currently not collectible. What did that do? The IRS immediately stopped levying his wages. He was able to take home 100% of his paycheck now, and then even more amazing, they sent him, the IRS sent my father-in-law, my father-in-law who owed the IRS money, the IRS sent my father-in-law the money that they had taken out of his paycheck.

That’s how powerful this currently not-collectible process is. They cease all collection activities, and if they took money away from you, whenever you qualified for this currently not collectible, they give it back to you. Bernie, I never would have known that without you. I want to say, thank you.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And stop and think how powerful that is. A lot of people, once again, I just go back to that phrase I love of, “They’re living their lives of quiet desperation.” They’re absolutely terrified, they can’t reveal to anybody that they owe all this money to the IRS, and yet, for a lot of people, they qualify for this currently not collectible. Don’t they?

Bernie: Well, they do and let me give you … I wrote an article on this and I kind of gave an example. Suppose you’ve got a guy that’s married a second time and he has two children from his first wife and he’s ordered to pay support and maybe some alimony. Okay? And he now has a second wife and maybe they have one child. He’s hiding from the IRS because he doesn’t know what you just elaborated on. He doesn’t know about currently non-collectible, plus the other options. Okay? He really is ill-informed. Alright? So now, think about this for a minute. He’s probably driving a clunker, okay, which is dangerous.

Tim: He probably got cash for that clunker.

Bernie: No, he didn’t get cash for that. He’s driving a clunker. That clunker is dangerous to your family, as to his family, because who knows, if something goes wrong with because it’s a clunker. It’s not any good. Why is he driving a clunker? Why is he living in substandard housing because he can’t afford more, and why can’t have health insurance or life insurance. If he dies, all these families are left holding the bag. Right?

The reason is, he hasn’t filed. The IRS, he thinks, is looking for him. They’re going to put him jail, they’re going to do these dastardly things to him, so he goes to these different employers, they pay him cash under the table, but not what he’s worth but smaller. He can’t afford anything. Think about this for a minute.

The first family isn’t getting child support, so they’re affected. This family, they can’t put food on the table. He’s driving a car that’s unsafe. What about if we show him how we can get the information from the IRS and file the last three, four, five, six years, even if he owes a million dollars, it doesn’t matter what he owes. He is entitled to go out and buy a car and have car payments. He’s entitled to have health insurance, life insurance. He’s allowed to have proper housing, he’s entitled, by the way, that the court ordered child support, to pay the child support, and if you add up all of this, he probably qualifies for uncollectible. He can get back in the system and he can take care of his family.

Tim: Amazing. Let’s take it a step at a time, Bernie. I’m kind of slow here. So step one, we’ve got to get the IRS blueprint.

Bernie: Correct.

Tim: You analyze his information. Step two, you bring him into compliance. You make sure the returns are filed properly and adequately and how you do that is with IRS blueprints, seeing what the IRS knows about the client.

Bernie: Plus what the client provides us.

Tim: Plus what the client provides you and getting the client in compliance.

Bernie: That’s correct.

Tim: And now, once the client’s provided you with their financial information, at that point in time, the IRS has what, they’re called the National Standards?

Bernie: Yes.

Tim: What they do now is, you compare your clients’ income with their expenses.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And if the client’s income, if they’re income is below-

Bernie: If they’re expenses equal to or exceed

Tim: Income. Or to put it differently, if their income is lower than the expenses, the allowable expenses-

Bernie: Yes.

Tim:By the IRS-

Bernie: Yes.

Tim:They qualify for currently not collectible.

Bernie: Bingo.

Tim: So, once again, if my income is below these national standards … So, once again, my father-in-law … He was making 35 thousand dollars a year as an individual. He qualified for currently not collectible.

Bernie: And then, again, what you said before in the first module as well as this, every case needs to be analyzed. Suppose your father-in-law had a standard of living that 35 thousand allowed him to be into currently not collectible. There are people making 45, 50, 60 thousand dollars that qualify for uncollectible.

Tim: People are making 40, 50, 60 thousand dollars … And by the way, is this before taxes or after taxes?

Bernie: Well, that is your gross income. Let’s say your W-2 wages.

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: Let’s say you’re earning 80 thousand dollars.

Tim: Yeah.

Bernie: In order to qualify for currently not collectible, by the way, you had to be in compliance.

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: So, remember the buzz word I keep saying. Compliance, compliance, compliance. So, what happens is you make your money … And by the way, if certain deductions are mandatory by your company, they are allowable expenses as well as the federal withholding tax, state, et cetera. Now you get down to your net take-home pay. Now you start deducting all your insurance, all your rent, telephone, gas, electric and everything.

Tim: Let’s walk through some numbers, Bernie. I’ve got the sheets … The stats. And this is directly off the IRS website. Directly off the IRS website.

Bernie: Correct.

Tim: Let’s say we have a family of four. We have a husband and wife and two kids. A family of four is allowed to spend 1370 dollars a month for food, clothing and other items.

Bernie: Correct.

Tim: Right off the top, they’re allowed to spend 1300 dollars a month.

Bernie: Right off the top.

Tim: Then … That’s just for food, clothing and other. Miscellaneous stuff. Your shampoo and such.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: For housing. You’re allowed to spend money on housing, too. For the room and board; the shelter above your head. And these expenses for housing and for transportation, they vary by where you live, don’t they?

Bernie: Exactly.

Tim: You do a lot of work in San Diego. Let’s talk about San Diego. For a family of four, you’re allowed to spend 2556 dollars a month-

Bernie: That’s in addition to the first figure.

Tim: Okay. That’s in addition to the first figure.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: So, right off the top, we’re what? 3800 dollars-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: A family of four is allowed to spend-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: -Before the IRS can touch them.

Bernie: Right. Right.

Tim: Okay.

Bernie: Add to that.

Tim: But wait. There’s more.

Bernie: There’s more.

Tim: Chances are, husband and wife are both working.

Bernie: K.

Tim: Chances are, husband and wife both need a car.

Bernie: Okay.

Tim: So, now, if you have two cars, you’re allowed to spend 978 dollars on the payments of those cars.

Bernie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim: We started off at 1300. Then we added on another 2500 and now we’re gonna add on another 1000 dollars. Were at 3800. Now we’re at 4800. Oh, but wait. It gets better. That was just the car payments. We’re also gonna have to pay for fuel and for insurance.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And repairs.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: That’s another 488 dollars.

Bernie: Right. Right. Right.

Tim: Oh. But wait. It gets better. Then we have medical expenses. We’re allowed to have medical expenses, too.

Bernie: Usually, I’m the one that gets excited saying these. This is exciting, isn’t it?

Tim: It’s beyond exciting, Bernie.

Bernie: Yeah.

Tim: And this is the biggest mind-blower to me. Just on the basic stuff. On the miscellaneous expenses-

Bernie: And it doesn’t even include insurance premiums-

Tim: Life insurance.

Bernie: Life insurance. It doesn’t include health insurance. It doesn’t include out-of-pocket medical expenses.

Tim: Alimony. Child support.

Bernie: Alimony. Child support. So, you can see … A person could be earning 70, 80 thousand dollars a year-

Tim: Well, let’s talk-

Bernie:And still qualify for CNC.

Tim: Just on the figures, we used, ignoring the alimony, the child support, the insurance and all that stuff … Just on those basic figures, a family of four could have up to 5392 dollars of monthly expenses-

Bernie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim: Which, if we annualize that, that’s roughly 65 thousand dollars a year of income they get to keep before the IRS can touch them. And this is after taxes-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And once again, medical expenses? We add that on.

Bernie: Right. Right.

Tim: Health care expenses?

Bernie: Right.

Tim: We add that on.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: Bernie, to me, this is earth-shattering information. Most of America doesn’t make 65 thousand dollars a year. Now-

Bernie: And you know what’s earth-shaking?

Tim: What?

Bernie: Most professionals do not know that the CNC exists.

Tim: I’m gonna shake my head. It’s like unbelievable.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: Absolutely unbelievable on this thing. And here’s the other thing. Let’s say that I owe the IRS 20 thousand dollars. Can I still get this currently not collectible status where they have to cease collection activity on the account?

Bernie: Agreed.

Tim: Let’s say I owe 100 thousand dollars. Can I still get this currently not collectible status?

Bernie: It could be a million dollars if you want it to be.

Tim: What about 500 million?

Bernie: It could be 500 million. It doesn’t depend on the amount owed. It’s what … I say a little differently than you.

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: If your expenses equal to or exceed your income, you qualify for CNC.

Tim: This is America. Everybody’s expenses exceed their income. So, this is just for Joe Lunchbucket. A family of four could be making 65 thousand dollars a year before medical, alimony, taxes – all that stuff.

Bernie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim: And they can qualify for currently not collectible where the IRS has to, by law, cease collection activity.

Bernie: Correct.

Tim: Now, what’s being left out here is I’m a small business owner. Let’s say I’m a life insurance agent. Let’s say I’m a real estate agent. I’ve got my own sole proprietorship – whatever it may be. I’m still allowed those necessary and ordinary, those required business expenses, to lower this as well.

Bernie: Totally.

Tim: More people need to know about this.

Bernie: Yeah. If you’re self-employed, what you do is you deduct all your business expenses that are allowable and then that gives you a net, which then you start from there. Then you reduce your estimated taxes and your life insurance and your housing and your transpiration, et cetera. So, yeah. So, you can maintain your business, you can pay your taxes … Present taxes … And not have to pay on back taxes because of the CNC concept.

Tim: Unbelievable. Now, the thing is the CNC, currently not a collectible concept.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: It’s all about cash flow. Let’s say that I’ve got, I don’t know, 200 thousand dollars. I just inherited 200 thousand dollars.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And I still want to qualify for this currently not collectible. Is there any way to qualify for currently not collectible and yet still have this 200 thousand sitting off to the side?

Bernie: Well, I’ll give you a perfect example. I have a client that has recently interviewed with me that her mother has money to give her, but she’s afraid to because she has a major tax problem. So, what I explained to her is that there’s something called a SPIA. You know what a SPIA is?

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: Okay. It’s a single premium insurance annuity. She can invest … It’s her mom’s money. So, she invests in a SPIA with the daughter as a beneficiary and set up either a five year, 10-year, 15-year or life income payment. Nobody … No creditors, the IRS, or any other tax authorities can go through and get that corpus, that lump sum, ’cause it doesn’t exist anymore. The only thing that exists is a monthly payment and if you have that monthly payment plus some other work you’re doing and you still qualify for currently non-collectible, then the mother feels good.

Tim: This secret here is you need to convert the asset, the lump sum of 200 thousand, into the cash flow.

Bernie: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Tim: And now so long as the income being generated by that as well as other income that the individual, the recipient, has-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: -Is less than the allowable living expenses, they’re still in currently not collectible status.

Bernie: That’s correct. Mom takes care of what she wants to do for her offspring. You can run your own business, have business deductions. You can go on business trips. You can go on other ordinary and reasonable expenses. Okay? Plus, live in your home, pay your mortgage, have your telephone, your gas, electric, et cetera. And make sure your [inaudible 00:18:43] alimony or support payments are made, your insurance paid for, your life insurance premiums paid for and you’re living a normal lifestyle and having income that is guaranteed.

Tim: More people need to be aware of this.

Bernie: Yes. I agree with you.

Tim: And going a little bit further. If mom didn’t want to give the assets outright to the daughter-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: She has the choice of maybe putting it inside the SPIA for the daughter.

Bernie: Okay.

Tim: Or the other thing, also, is a trust. And there’s gonna be … I don’t know how many trillions of dollars passed down to the next generation over the next 15, 20 years. And a lot of people are gonna be inheriting that money outright. And if they inherit that money outright and they have IRS issues, what’s the IRS gonna do?

Bernie: The IRS is gonna take it.

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: And if they have … If the beneficiary has the ability to get the money. So there’s one keyword, isn’t there?

Tim: There is. I mean, you got to use that discretionary trust-

Bernie: That’s right.

Tim: -‘Cause even with the spin-thrift trust-

Bernie: Right.

Tim: A lot of people think that spin-thrift trust is gonna save them. The IRS can assert its lien, typically, against spin-thrift trusts. It just has to be a properly structured trust to protect the whole family.

Bernie: That is correct.

Tim: Now, let’s say that we get the client into currently not collectible status.

Bernie: K.

Tim: To a certain extent, have we done anything for them? ‘Cause all

All we’ve really done is push back the day of reckoning, isn’t it, Bernie?

Bernie: Well, yeah, I call it the Bandaid effect. And what you have to do is that, if a person qualifies for a currently non-collectible then you use that as a basis for other options that are available to you that can either totally eliminate the tax penalties and interest, or get them to settlement purposes.

Tim: Now, let’s talk about earlier, you mentioned a cryptic phrase, CSED.

Bernie: CSED. Right.

Tim: Can you please tie in, Sally sold CSED by the … I’m sorry guys. Please tie in the CSED date with currently non-collectible. How could they work hand in hand to achieve some amazing results?

Bernie: Okay, when you are assessed taxes, there is a statute of limitations of collections. CSED means collections statute expiration date. So each day we’re getting to that point, right?

Tim: So to put it in normal language, CSED stands for at what date do your tax liabilities disappear.

The IRS only has so long to come after you.

Bernie: That’s correct and if you’re currently non-collectible, you just simply go forward until that date comes.

Tim: So conceivably, a statute of limitations is what? Ten years?

Bernie: Ten years from the date of assessment.

Tim: Conceivably, if I’m not making enough income and I’m able to not make enough income for the next five years, seven years, ten years, I could rack up a bill of 500 trillion dollars with IRS, I stay in currently not-collectible, and once that the date of the statute of limitations comes, poof, everything disappears?

Bernie: You remember what I told you about the guy with 500,000?

Tim: Yeah.

Bernie: That’s exactly what happened.

Tim: Well let’s go a step further. A lien. You said that the liens are the tougher ones to deal with.

Bernie: Mm-hmm (affirmative)-

Tim: Let’s say they slapped a lien against his house for 500,000.

Bernie: Kay.

Tim: And he was in currently not-collectible.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: And now he goes past the CSED date, he goes back to the statute of limitations…

Bernie: Right. Right.

Tim: Date. Poof the debt disappears, but he owes the IRS.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: What happens to the lien on his property?

Bernie: Let me answer it this way. Remember I told you when you go into a currently non-collectible, any levies that out there are removed immediately. When you run the statute, the IRS has to release the lien.

Tim: Unbelievable.

So, if I’m hearing things correctly, we go into currently not-collectible, which a ton of people can qualify for.

Bernie: Millions.

Tim: Probably 80 percent of America.

So we go into currently not-collectible, IRS has to cease all collection activity.

Bernie: Agreed.

Tim: And now we just go through normal. We’re not playing any games or anything, we just have these regular living expenses and we wait four or five years. The statute date comes and goes and now we don’t owe another dime to the IRS.

Bernie: If you don’t owe any money to the IRS, they can’t have a lien. So if there’s no money owed to the IRS, the lien has to be removed.

Tim: You know Bernie, I gotta bring it up. This sounds [crosstalk 00:23:03] too…

Bernie: Too good to be true.

It is true. It’s the law. It’s not IRS policy. It’s Federal law. And the funny thing is that all the IRS people know this. That’s why when I … in the other module that I was talking about the $400,000 and I called up the IRS and she said, “Oh yeah.” She did it internally even though I did do a…

Tim: You had to remind her.

Bernie: I wanted to do a letter so I had a paper trail. They understand this.

Tim: Are we allowed to talk about this?

Bernie: Sure.

Tim: It seems like secret information. The helicopters are gonna swoop down, the suburbans gonna pull in front of us…

Bernie: No, no, no.

The only difficulty is if you’re in a CNC and all of a sudden the next year, you’re making $150,000, there will be an automatic look-see and you may come out of the CNC. But as long as you maintain the income and expense structure that put you into the CNC, you’re home free.

Tim: Now Bernie, let’s say you get into CNC. And let’s say that you do make that 150,000. Is there a duty on your part where you have to call up the IRS and say, “Hey, look, guys, I’m making more money.”

Bernie: They will find out and I’ll tell you how they’ll find out. Because when you file your tax return, there’s a scanning. They have done it in the computer system now. So normally you don’t advise them because it’s gonna be found out anyway. So when I interview with people, I tell them there is a time in the future if you … and by the way, most of my clients aren’t going to make $150,000. There’s another factor. Now remember something, during the time period of the CNC, there are two other options that may become available to you because of the CNC and that is called a negotiation for settlement and tax bankruptcy.

Tim: Which will be covered in the next module.

Bernie: In the next module we’re gonna talk about that.

Tim: And now, the final concept I want to talk about. Let’s say you don’t qualify for CNC.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: You have maybe $100 in a month… over and above…

Bernie: Sure.

Tim: The CNC requirements. The national standards of allowable expenses and everything. But you don’t have the cash to pay the debt.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: What’s the option available to you?

Bernie: An installment agreement. And there’s a special form that we negotiate with the Internal Revenue Service and we say, “Okay, my client has $200 a month left over, so we will pay you $200 a month,” and it’s done. The statute keeps running by the way.

Tim: Statute keeps running so what I’m hearing then is there’s a form I can file and the IRS gives me an automatic loan to pay them off.

Bernie: Well [inaudible 00:25:45] a loan because you’re paying off that $200 or $150, $100. Whatever it is, you owe the money, this amount of money and you’re paying this off until the statute runs.

Tim: So my viewpoint, the IRS has just lent me money to pay their taxes. Now, if I went to pay that off with my credit card, I’m looking at 20, 25 percent interest.

Bernie: Yeah.

Tim: What’s the interest the IRS is gonna gauge me with?

Bernie: Less than eight percent.

Tim: Less than eight percent per year.

Bernie: Yeah.

Tim: Why aren’t more people doing this? Why aren’t more people a) being aware of currently not-collectible and b) if they don’t qualify for currently not-collectible, making payments at the 8% interest rate?

Bernie: The first thing we would encourage everybody to do is to file your tax returns and pay your taxes. Okay, so we don’t encourage people not to pay their taxes to get a simplified loan.

Tim: Sure.

Bernie: But if you find yourself in that situation and usually it’s because of a business disaster, divorces, emotional breakdowns, etc. Again, it’s not as severe as everybody thinks. There are people who actually have committed suicide ‘cause they didn’t know what you and I are talking about. I’m serious. They have committed suicide and they didn’t have to. And that’s what really is problematic because the professionals out there are not educating the people. That’s why we need to tell people there are options. Do nothing, go find the money, do installment agreement, disappear for ten years, there’s a statute of limitations on collections, do an [inaudible 00:27:26] negotiation settlement, deal with tax bankruptcy, do a chapter 13 reorganization that stops anybody from even talking to you or do a CNC. Every single person will fit in one of those options. Nobody needs to commit suicide.

Tim: Bernie, you’re being very forceful on that. I know that I had a client and her husband, did in fact, commit suicide over tax issues and from hanging out with you, I know there is always a solution and that’s the part that to me is so devastating and so sad …

Bernie: Right.

Tim: Is that people who don’t know any better, they’re driven to the brink because they don’t know.

Bernie: Right.

Tim: If this information was only available to everybody, hopefully, they would be more aware of it and they wouldn’t have to take that solution.

Bernie: You know when I interview people that have tax problems and they come in. I always keep tissues because they been to other people and they don’t know what we know, naturally. And after I finish talking with them, I have something I say to them. I say: “Whatever that 5000 penal blocks of cement you’re carrying on your back, leave it with me today and go out and have a great weekend.” What I know and what we’re educating the people at to the series is we’re gonna show you how to get control back in your life and have that control give you a future. And these options and the three-part problem-solving process is the answer to how to put control back in your life.

Tim: I love that. Can you say that again Bernie?

Bernie: Let me show you how to put control back in your life and have that control give you and your family a future.

Speaker 1: That’s it for today as we dream of a tax system that works just for you. But until then you have Tim Berry. See you next Tuesday for another episode of Tax Hacker Tuesday.