Forget Real Estate! Invest in THIS Instead. with Jayson Gaignard | 604

Jayson Gaignard

Jayson Gaignard came to the show to share why a self-made strategy is a myth and to advise you how to create and maintain those worthwhile relationships that can be of great value to your business. A creator of Mastermind Talks and Community Made Podcast, Jayson has abundant personal and professional experience in communications and relationship building. Listen and learn why you should keep your word and invest in relationships, how he runs his business, and why you should focus on the quality rather than quantity of relationships.

Jayson Gaignard

What You Will Learn About Forget Real Estate! Invest in THIS Instead. with Jayson Gaignard:

  • What Jayson Gaignard’s business was, how he got on the entrepreneurial hamster wheel, and why it crashed
  • How he got the idea of doing the Mastermind Talks
  • Why you should keep your word and invest in relationships
  • How Jayson managed to bring great speakers to his first event
  • What makes his entrepreneurial events different from the others
  • How listening to what other people have to say can help you succeed in real estate
  • Why quality of relationships is more important than quantity
  • Check out Joyson’s podcast, Community Made
  • The 3 guiding principles for his success
  • How to reach Jayson Gaignard

Whenever you’re ready, here are a few ways we can help:

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  • Join our Badass Investor Program and be a Case Study 
    I’m putting together a new Badass Investor case study group at Epic Real Estate this month… stay tuned for details. If you’d like to work with me on your real estate investing, go to to get started.
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Speaker 1: This is Theriault Media.

Jayson Gaignard: I go wide in my networking but I go deep in my nurturing of relationships and that’s a huge focus for me and that’s very, it’s very against the grain as far as what the gospel is and the relationships space. Which is just know everybody or have to go millimeter deep with 20,000 people but that don’t have any deep and genuine relationships and for me at the end of the day it doesn’t matter how many friends you can count. It matters how many friends you can count on.

Matt Theriault: Hey, Matt Theriault here and it is a hot day today. I have a great episode for you of Thought Leader Thursday right here on The Epic Real Estate investing show. So, on today’s episode of Thought Leader Thursday I’m joined by a very special individual. One of the more, connected people, I think I’ve ever met but it wasn’t always like. It wasn’t too long ago, as he was, stuck on the entrepreneurial hamster wheel. Building a business that he hated. To buy things that he didn’t need. To impress people that he didn’t even like and after hitting rock bottom on every front imaginable, he burned the boats in search of something new, something fulfilling. He didn’t know what that would be at the time but by the end of his first MMT, he Mastermind Talks event in May of 2013, he knew he had found it. I think this is fitting, I found this quote on his website, “Forget real estate, forget stocks, forget cryptocurrencies, relationships are the ultimate assets.” “Self-made is a myth,” he says, “the truth is no one ever does it alone. We need other people to lean on and to learn from.” I couldn’t agree more. Please help me welcome to the show Mr. Jayson Gaignard. Jason welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing.

Jayson: I couldn’t be more minus the real estate comment.

Matt: [inaudible 00:01:44] We are going to make it all blend eventually. Right? So, Jayson, we’ve known each other for a little bit. We never really got to talk and we just admitted that here recording this is the first time we really had to the opportunity to talk face to face here. What was it that you were doing when you are on this entrepreneurial hamster wheel and what was it that caused the crash?

Jayson: Yeah, so it was multiple factors. For me, I wasn’t much of an academic so I dropped out of high school. I ventured into kind of entrepreneurship and I guess the traditional gospel in how you start a business is, you build a business based on opportunity and proximity. “How can you make the most amount of money as quickly as possible given your skill set?” and I inevitable feel into the event ticketing business. So selling and reselling concert tickets online. So similar to like a Stub hub, I had a large brand called Tickets Canada. Which is a wholesaler-retailer up in Canada and it was one of those things that made a lot of money but I don’t go to sporting events, I hate concerts. So it’s hard to sell something and dedicate 80 percent of your waking day that you aren’t passionate about. So, I just was out of aliment.

I didn’t really understand the importance of being in aliment with the work that you do. In the sense that I was just pursuing making money. Money, I didn’t have a lot of money as a kid. I saw my father trade his time for money and that kind of stuff and I didn’t want to fall into that same trap. So my only goal when I was young was to make money and make money I did but I realized as I went along that at one point of time, I was earning 22 times the national average income and in most business circles I would be celebrating but I quickly realized that I wasn’t 22 times happier.

I was 22 times healthier. Actually, I had kidney complications because of stress at the age of 23. I realize that money and happiness feel very differently and I was just-that industry that I was in wasn’t for me. Again it forced me to burn the boats so to speak.

Matt: Yeah, I like that expression. So, essentially you burned the boats and you mentioned in your bio, you didn’t really mention it now but you said, “you hit rock bottom” spiritual and emotionally.

Jayson: How that rock bottom became to be was, again I’m glad you bring that up because it was a little bit of a disconnect. I’m making money hand over fist and then I’m hitting rock bottom. So really what happened in that period was, for me, I could have positioned that business for sale but when I realized my heart was in it, I didn’t have the eagerness to like stay in the business. To put it for sale, find a buyer, do some transition process. To me, that like an 18 month, two-year plan and I realized I was not in alignment with the business. I need to get out.

So, for me what the plan was to scale the business down to zero, was to remove myself from the business and slowly scale it down to zero but unfortunately, historically, I wasn’t great at hiring A talent I guess you could say. So, I had B level players in the business with C level players under them. So, when I removed myself from the equation the business started to implode from the inside and everybody knew their fate. I mean they knew that the business was scaling down, so they knew they had to start looking for new opportunities and that kind of stuff. So they weren’t all that invested in the business, but we were scaling down and my goal was to scale down, have a little bit of money left in the bank, have a soft landing and then figure out what I was going to do next. But again because of all the inefficiencies and the lack of care on everybody’s part, and more importantly two specific situations.

One was I had a bank call my loan and right afterward I had my merch and services provider put me on 100 percent reserve. Meaning that the 97 percent of my transactions took place online and basically overnight they eliminated all my cash flow. Every single charge I put through would go, would be put into a reserve bank account. I couldn’t touch unless I closed my merch and services account and waited six months. So, it just killed the business.

I was so detached, I was like forget it, I don’t care. Things are going to happen how they happen and ultimately in August of 2012 was when the dust settled and I was a quarter million dollars in debt. With no business, no cash flow didn’t know what I was going to do next. The following month September 1st my daughter was turning six months old. September 1st I got married to my wife in the Bahamas. So it was the saying when one door closes another one opens but it sucks to be stuck in the hallway and it was a very dark hallway. For me at the time. So, that was I guess that’s how I hit that rock bottom so to speak after being off a financially high. You know only a few years prior.

Matt: Got it. So you’re in a position now, you got to start over basically. You’re not really quite sure what it is. What it is going to be. So how did the idea and the execution really of Mastermind Talks come about?

Jayson: Yeah, the only thing I was certain of into that transition period was I didn’t want to run into the same problem again, of building something that didn’t light me up. So, what happened was in that transition period, somebody posted on Facebook, that he had an extra ticket to go see Seth Godin in New York. I’ve always been a big fan of Seth’s work, he’s written God knows how many New York Times best-selling books but I’ve never had an opportunity to see him speak live, in person. So, I had no other obligations at the time being unemployed, no business in my life, so I said I’ll take the ticket. That was the first time I’d ever booked a hostel because I couldn’t find much more than that in New York for the little budget I was working with and went to this workshop.

Didn’t know what it was about but it turned out the theme of it was connection economy and how there’s huge value in connecting like-minded individuals. At the time being where I was, I didn’t build my business at the expense of relationships but I built them at the expense of investing relationships like relationships weren’t a focus for me. I was just very socially isolated at the time and I came back to Toronto which is where I’m based out of and decided to do these things called Mastermind Dinners. Where I’d invite eight entrepreneurs out for dinner which the core focus on connecting them and the first one I did I almost cancel prior because I’m like no one is going to see value in this. They’re going to think I’ve completely wasted their time but being two hours to show-time I couldn’t cancel because some people were already on their way.

So out of integrity, I have to follow through and the dinner turned out to be a big success and lasted like four and a half hours. The conversation didn’t skip a beat and I just got clarity that being in proximity of great people and connecting people was something that I wanted to do to some capacity for the rest of my life and not necessarily as a business cause I was paying for these dinners out of pocket. I didn’t know how I was going to pay rent the next month but I was paying for these dinners and my reasoning was that I was pretty sure I was going to declare bankruptcy.

I have never declared bankruptcy before but that was pretty rock bottom for me and my reasoning was the bank would take my car, they could take whatever measly assets I have left but they can’t take my relationships. Investing in myself and investing in my relationships to me were the safest investments I could make. So, I continued on with the dinners and after a few months and having Tim Ferriss a five-time New York Times best-selling author was coming out with a book called 4-Hour Chef. I’m sorry, yeah, Four Hour Chef and I’ve known Tim for years but many people don’t know this but Four Hour Chef was his third book. His first two books were The 4-Hour Workweek and 4-Hour Body were New York Times bestsellers. Obviously, the expectation is that his next book would be a New York Times best-selling book as well. Well, unfortunately, what happens was, he was banned for all retail distribution. So, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, everybody, and that was three weeks before that book came out.

Matt: What was the reason for that?

Jayson: The reason was he was the first big named author to publish through Amazon and the old traditionally kind of publishing arm wanted to make an example of him because Amazon was becoming too big of a player in the space.

Matt: Got it.

Jayson: So, Tim is one of the best book marketers I know and he created these book bundle campaigns that if you bought ten books he would give you these additions resources and if you bought 50 books maybe he would do a webinar with you or something. He’s hail Mary package that if you bought 4,000 he would do two speaking engagements, and at the time I was one of the first people to see this opportunity and I thought of a friend of mine, Scott that does these big events. They have nine events a year and a couple of thousand people show up to these business events and I said, “Dude this is a great opportunity for you.” Cause Tim has never spoken in Canada and he doesn’t speak that often. Plus, he can move the books and the minute I clicked send on that email I said, “Well Tim’s only offering that one package,” and there’s a different way you can manage or leverage this opportunity. So I emailed Tim directly and I said, I’ll take the package.

The only problem is again I was in serious debt. Living off gift cards. I had to come up with 84,000 dollars in three days.

Matt: I just did the math real quick. It had to be about 80 grand.

Jayson: There you go. So it’s 84,000 and…

Matt: But if you had prime shipping you probably got a good deal, right?

Jayson: Well, oddly enough so I bought 4,000 books and I still have 3200 in Denver, Colorado. So, if you ever need books for one of your events.

Matt: Got it.

Jayson: You just let me know. Unfortunately, it’s the worse book he ever wrote. If it was a 4-hour Workweek I could have done something with it.

Matt: Yeah the title wasn’t nearly as intriguing as the first two, right?

Jayson: No, there’s a lot of mistakes with that one. Ultimately I bought the books and how I came up with the money was the biggest part in the sense that all my businesses in the past I built on credit cards. I was kind of born and raised with the sense of pride that you don’t ask for help from anybody and all that kind of stuff, so to raise money was a really scary proposition for me. But, I reached out to three friends. The first one I called said, “sounds awesome, come back to me with some numbers.” And I like I’m not a numbers thinker as an entrepreneur I’m I just have a gut feeling about things. So I was like I will go back with you but I don’t even know how this industry works. I’ve never done an event before.

The second person I spoke with to says, “Sounds good, let’s start a business together 50/50.” I said, “Sounds awesome to me I have one more person to call.” The third person I called said, I was halfway through the pitch and he said, “Just come to my office tomorrow morning and pick up a check.” I hung up the phone, I didn’t keep him on the phone any longer than that. The following morning I picked up the check first thing and deposited the money and that’s how I got the advancement.

Matt: Wow, you gave me goosebumps.

Jayson: Yeah, and the funny thing about that story is that after that first event, because it was a big success by a lot of people’s standards, and one of the core reasons for that I say, ignorance, confidence and hard work can go a long way. I didn’t know what I was doing. Planning of the event was significantly closer to a wedding than it was a conference and it still is to this day but after that event was a success a couple of months later I reached back out to this guy. Cause we didn’t talk about repayment terms, we didn’t talk about what capacity is this money. Is it a loan? Is it an investment? Whatever the case may be. Anyways I reached out to him a couple of months after the events and I said, “why did you lend me that money, why did you give me that money?” Because on paper it’s like the worse investment you could make.

I’m 27 years old, a new father, can’t make rent. Just coming off a failed business and you handed me an 84,000 dollar check and I’ll never forget it, he said, “I wasn’t investing in the business, I was investing in you.” And at that point in time, two things became very clear. One is you never know the value of your network until you really need it and two, when you hit rock bottom in life, which we all do at some point in time. You’re really left with two things. The first one is your word and the second thing is your relationships. So never tarnish your word and always invest in your relationships and that’s why I’ve been so bullish on the relationships for the last years.

Matt: Interesting. Fascinating story. Great. Thanks for sharing that. One thing I’ve noticed about Mastermind Talks, I’ve never been, but I’ve seen like who’s been on the speaker list over the years, and I think what’s almost equally impressive is, who’s been the attendees. Who are the guests, right? What was the initial attraction for you to… I mean you started with a Seth Godin speech and then you’ve probably developed a relationship with Tim or it got stronger because you knew him before. How does that evolve? How does that grow? Is it just one person at a time and methodically doing that or-?

Jayson: No, I would love to, yeah my ego would love to say it’s all hard work, but it’s not. A lot of success has to do with timing and lucky breaks. I’m just smart enough to leverage those lucky breaks and see trends and really jump on them. Really for us first things first, Tim had quite a big influence back then. I didn’t have money to pay speakers and nothing forces you to be creative more than crushing debt. So I didn’t have money to pay speakers at the time. What I did was a took a page out of the [inaudible 00:14:37] which means I create a prize for the best talkers voted by the audience.

So I did this 25,000 dollar prize and then I had Tim as the main speaker initially. He was the first speaker I got. So I just took a page out of the real estate playbook, so to speak, and use them almost like an anchor tendon. I knew I could get people who wanted to be connected to Tim to speak at the event for free. Or people who were already friends with Tim but never at the same place at the same time. So, similar to, if you have a mall that’s flailing and you have a Nordstrom’s that comes in as a tenant most likely it will another A level tenant like an Apple Store. An apple store will bring someone else.

So that was kind of the thing with Tim. I had this big name speaker in Tim and I could bring in other people and that’s ultimately what happened. I got a bunch of Ted speakers to speak, I got Lewis Howles was there, Marc Ecko from Ecko clothing, Ryan Holiday all these people and that’s how we built that first event. The byproduct of bringing all his friends together was and this again is just a testament to seeing things that are working and leveraging them. Usually, when you go to an event a speaker comes out from behind a set of curtains and they’ll start talking and leaves because it was all his friends he stayed the entire two days of the event.

All the speakers stayed the entire two days of the event. They sat in the audience like everybody else and participated like everybody else. So, that changed the dynamic of the event really quickly. Also, because of the caliber of the people and the curation because we had 4200 entrepreneurs apply for that first event, because of that curation we had 15 speakers that year. 10 of them came back as paid attendees the following year. The icing on the cake was because we had this competition model, we had these big-name speakers, like Tim is a friend, has a 100,000 keynote fee, often times. So we had these big-name speakers and a funny thing happened in year one and happened every year since, was that first year, the first place winner, the second place winner, and the four people tied for third none of them were big names. They were all the unknowns.

The big names were like eighth, twelfth and that kind of stuff. So from a brand, equity perspective, people realized it didn’t matter who was on the stage, from a big name perspective. They knew we were going to pick the right people and also people got a good understanding that the quality of the event was really the quality of the people in the room. So, every year we pivoted more to this peer to peer model and now our three and a half day event, I think we had one or two speakers last year, in Park City. So to be the best learning doesn’t happen in conference rooms it happens in conversation. It happens in conversation over yoga in the morning, over breakfast, over drinks after dinner.

If I could boil down the essence [inaudible 00:17:17] It’s great people, great food, great experiences, in a beautiful setting and learning intertwined throughout the event.

Matt: For those that are just meeting you for the very first time, you have to explain to them the format and what it exactly is.

Jayson: So, basically since our inception in 2013 we have had just over 18,000 entrepreneurs apply for the community that capped at 150 people annually.

Matt: 18,000 have applied and you allow 150 at a time.

Jayson: 150 every year, yeah.

Matt: Right, okay.

Jayson: Usually when you have success in this industry the common strategy and the scale is more events or bigger events. That’s what everybody knows. For us instead of scaling in size every year, we scale by raising the price and by raising the caliber of people in attendance. Our first event was 1,000 bucks and our last event was 10,000. Our next event is 12,000 so it’s gone up every year and just because you were allowed last year doesn’t mind you’re allowed back. We had the old Jack Welch model of we would only allow a third of the people to come back for the first couple years and we’d knock out the bottom two-thirds but after a few years, I was like, how much of a community is it if you’re knocking out two-thirds.

So, we changed it to like a 50/50 model which has been working well for us. Ultimately, we have almost a one-year community which kicks off with this three-day live experience. The live events take place all across North America. Our last event was in Park City, and prior to that was Carmel and California and our next one is in Cabo. It’s just become a beautiful collecting of people and it’s really what makes it different then most events is that it really is a community. In the sense that 95 percent of my own personal social time is with these people. We just did a Disney cruise like 80 people and their families. Last week at the end of the month we are going to LA. A bunch of us, like 40 of us are doing a coaching and mentorship day at a Correction Facility to help men transition out of the prison system.

So we are always doing stuff like that. So, that’s what really makes it different than the majority of other entrepreneurial events and organizations and that kind of stuff.

Matt: You know that you just brought that up I think my wife is going to be there through the EL organization.

Jayson: Oh nice, yeah, yeah.

Matt: So, I will have her seek you out.

Jayson: Oh, that’s awesome.

Matt: She volunteered for that a few weeks ago.

Jayson: That is a beautiful experience.

Matt: Yeah, she’s really looking forward to it. She’s actually kind of giddy about it. So, I can’t wait to hear what the experience is like. And the last thing about this real quickly so we talked about, we are coming up on six years now, right? I just saw the date I guess may is next month, I guess, or two months away. Right? So, 2013.

Jayson: Wow it is going to be six years.

Matt: Yeah, I just did the math right here while I was talking to you. You mentioned a few of the people there to set it off in the beginning. Just to give people the idea of the magnitude who are some of the people who have come through the years?

Jayson: Well, Tim Ferriss has come back as an attendee, since. Brian Scuadmore was there this year he owns 1-800-JUNK they do 440 million dollars a year. Adam Franklin who owns Franklin, they make baseball sportswear. Baseball mitts and that kind of stuff so if you’re into baseball Franklin is a well-known brand in that space.

Matt: Yeah, definitely.

Jayson: Dave Asprey from Bulletproof, he’s been for the last three or four years. I’m trying to think who else. Ester Perel is a well known Ted speaker. Probably one of the most well known Ted speakers, especially when it comes to relationship and that kind of jazz. I only share that because like what excites me most is the up and comers. When Dave Asprey joined MMT they were doing a couple of million dollars a year now they are doing well into the nine figures but when he joined it was a couple of million dollars a year, and that to me is far more exciting than the bigger names. So, a lot of people in our community I’m excited to see where they are going to be in three years, five years, ten years, right?

I’m for the amazing people to become increasingly amazing over time. So, whenever I’m faced with the opportunity from a curation process to have like somebody who is already a big name but somebody but maybe on the cusp of plateauing versus somebody who is an up and comers who are hungry and really eager to learn and play for out during the experience and that kind of stuff. I’ll go for that person instead.

Matt: Got it. So, with all these conversations that you have, cause really your whole business is the conversation.

Jayson: Sure.

Matt: What do you wish you could talk about more that you don’t get the opportunity to?

Jayson: The people that we have again in the community are my closest- we have 150 in Mastermind talks and we have 130-140 were at my wedding. Nothing is off limits. We talk about our woes-

Matt: That’s great.

Jayson: In relationships and parenting and all that kind of stuff. So in that content, I can always talk about those kinds of things. For me like a personal brand perspective, like speaking on stage, is I talk a lot about relationships and networking. I only talk about things I know well. So, there are only one or two areas, really. Anything outside of that I don’t feel comfortable talking about. So, I am very blessed to have a lot of opportunities to kind of speak my mind and share my voice. I definitely do that when giving the opportunity.

Matt: Well, on that note, let me see if I can make you a little uncomfortable.

Jayson: I’m all for it.

Matt: I like to play a game with my guests and because, and this is all based on the premise that I’ve learned so much about my own real estate investing business from people not in real estate investing. Kind of paying attention to their superpower or what makes their business work, or what makes them go and what motivates them, right. So, let’s play a game. You are a real estate investor, Jason, and with all of your superpowers, you’re looking for discounted real estate. So, with the superpowers that you have how would you go about finding discounted real estate?

Jayson: Oh, well it’s funny. So even given that statement at the beginning of this episode I actually love real estate. I haven’t got into it but I follow MLS up here I guess that’s your, you have in the state. I check that every single day religiously for the last five, six years. I love real estate. So, I’m just waiting for the opportunity to get into it and learn from a fine gentleman like you so I’ll probably have to sign up for one of your programs. But for me, because I love real estate I wanted to get plugged into what’s going on, real estate wise locally and what I started to do was, invite people in real estate space, and just be a fly on the wall.

So I’d invite them for lunch. Four people and I wouldn’t say a dam word. I just bring them all together and let them talk shop. Find out all the fascinating things going on locally and what the [inaudible 00:24:13] are and all that kind of stuff and just sit there and absorb it. I’ve done that before and it’s amazing. It’s an MBA in like 90 minutes and I pick up the tab and they are all grateful for it. I’m like dude you don’t know what you guys just left me with. So, for me the relationship component, like, you obviously know this space better than me. I live in a smaller city like an up and coming city which is like a tech hub and there are only a few players that own the city. So getting connected with them, getting connected with the top agents and that kind of stuff is definitely an area of focus.

To me, it’s just a relationship play. It’s doing what I do in the business world, taking that skill set and applying it similar of the lens of wanting to connect with real estate people and like I’ve said I’ve done a little bit of that. Hosting lunches and that kind of stuff where I know nothing about real estate but I bring together people who do and I’m just a fly on the wall.

Matt: Perfect, that’s exactly what I’m looking for. That’s great. It’s such a people business that- the audience, they kind of, I don’t know they get so involved in the technology and all the new tricks, and gimmicks and tactics for finding real estate deals that you forget that every piece of real estate you buy or sell is going to be from or to another person.

Jayson: That’s the one thing about Canada is we’re a little further behind from the tech side. So, because of that, it’s still a little more relationship focused and I know the general rule of thumb, at least where we are commercial real estate, which I’ve been looking into. Anytime commercial hits like the open markets, it’s cause it’s a bad deal. Good deals happen behind the scenes, right?

Matt: Right.

Jayson: They happen before they hit those open markets. To me, it’s very relationship focused.

Matt: 100 percent. What commonly held truth do you disagree with? You might have opened up the show with it. Self-made it a myth.

Jayson: Yeah, that’s definitely one of them, for sure. I mean the whole notion of being self-made and I mean I get it. Listen, I understand, you put in your hard work and all that and you want to take credit and there’s a balance there. The amount of opportunities I’ve been given and that kind of stuff, nothing is self-made. Most of the clients that I have, always come through an introduction or something like that. That would be one of them.

I also think in the context of relationship or relationships the amount of people that focus on quantity versus quality. So you know the amount of people, pat themselves on the back when they hit 20,000 Linkedin contacts. To me, I go wide in my networking, but I go deep in my nurturing of relationships and that’s a huge focus for me and that’s a very against the grain as far as what the gospel is in the relationship space, which is just like know everybody. Or go a millimeter deep with 20,000 people but they don’t have any deep or genuine relationship. To me the end of the day it doesn’t matter how many friends you can count but how many friends you can count on. If I didn’t have that friend five or six years ago that lent me that 84k I have no clue where I would be right now.

Matt: Would be, right? We all have those moments, we’ve got those relationships we think about. Gosh, if that hadn’t happened. Where would I be today, right?

Jayson: 100 percent.

Matt: Absolutely. You got your own podcast Community Made. You complete two seasons, is that right?

Jayson: Yeah. Yup.

Matt: I loved it. I listened to the first one. Not yet the second season but I will. Let me ask you. What are your three guiding principals for your success? If you had three of those what would they be?

Jayson: So, there are a few quotes that come to the top of my mind. So hopefully this is helpful and where you wanted to go. One of them is businesslike life is all about how you make people feel. It’s that simple and it’s that hard. It’s a quote by Danny Meyer who’s Shake Shack and a bunch other restaurant properties and that kind of stuff. I put it at the bottom of my email signature and that’s something I always try to keep at the forefront on some level but it’s easy to get wrapped up into the whole notion, oh I’m B to B so it’s not relationship focused. Or it’s all about numbers, it’s really not. Like we make decisions emotionally and we justify it logically afterward. In the work that I do it’s just a great example of this. I always try to keep that in my mind that we are all in the human to human business. No matter, Starbucks obviously or even in a B to B model. So that’s one.

Another one would be a quote by John Paul DeJoria who is the founder of Patron tequila. He’s worth I like three billion dollars or something like that. He has a philosophy that I don’t want to be in the order business I want to be in the reorder business. To me, it’s just this beautiful kind of mantra in the sense that we live in a world we people are just kind of worried about more leads and more email opt-ins and all this kind of stuff.

It’s like pouring water into a strainer. It’s this philosophy around like a business without profit is eating soup with a fork. You stay busy but you stay hungry. Right, so it’s kind of a thing for us with MMT. We’ve had 18000 people apply and stuff but our retention rate it really all I care about. How many people want to come back year after years and that’s anywhere between 82 to 87 percent every year. So, that’s what I really focus my energy on instead of focusing on generating more leads. Focus on the existing clientele I have, offering an incredible customer experience and then they will be the biggest brand advocates you’ve ever had. That’s how we’ve grown. We haven’t been open, we haven’t opened our events to applications for the last three, four years. It has only been through word of mouth. You have to be nominated. Those would be two mantras off the top of my head. I’m trying to think.

Another one would be by the good old Gandhi. He has a philosophy. There’s more to life than increasing its speed and to me, that’s been a real important one to keep in the back of my head because it’s easy to get on the trap of wanting to do more deals and all that kind of stuff and not- you know forgetting to live. Forgetting the important things. My daughter just turned seven. Kids grow fast, man and she’s a point now where I’m really glad I focused on family for the first handful of years in her life. When she gets in her teens she probably won’t care about me. I’ll be able to focus on business again at that point in time. Just the whole notion there’s more the life than increasing its speed. To me, it’s just a beautiful mantra.

Matt: No, I like it. The concept really just this whole show revolves around, the concept of getting a stream of cash, whether then saving a pile of cash. It is such a- it’s not as an exciting path, that we see from the outside looking in, but it’s a much faster one but to your point is because it’s a faster path just to get to a place where you can enjoy life rather than saving a sacrificing for someplace. This place called retirement way out in the future. Where two-thirds of your life is gone by the time you reach it. If you can get it right. What’s something that few people know about you that you wished more people did?

Jayson: Well, that’s funny I just came off an interview, a friend of mine flew in from Australia to interview me in person, and he kept on giving off this vibe that I don’t deal with imposter syndrome. He just gave off this vibe that I’m perfect and that was bothersome to me. I definitely don’t try and give off that illusion. I try, being in the thought leadership space, not me personally, but surrounding myself with some many thought leaders, unfortunately, it’s sad to see how many people preach what they say on stage and then practice one thing, completely the opposite behind the scenes.

So, for me, I always see it as my responsibility to be overly transparent and overly vulnerable about my flaws and that kind of stuff and that’s the one thing that is inevitable. Sometimes people put you on a pedestal and think you don’t have any flaws and you don’t deal with any fears or any self-worth issues and that kind of stuff. A lot of those voices in the back of my head have subsided over the years but they are not gone completely. So, yeah. Understanding those on a pedestal is still human and still has faults and are still working through things. I think is something I loved to articulate to everybody.

Matt: No, that’s great. I think authenticity, that’s the word that comes to mind when you’re saying that and I think that’s why you are so loved and you’ve talked about so highly and I really appreciate you coming here on Thought Leader Thursday episode of Epic Real Estate Investing. If someone wanted to get in touch with you Jason what would be the best way for them to do that?

Jayson: I mean most of the social channels. Instagram. I’ve been leaning into Instagram lately. I feel like an old man it took me like forever about two months ago. This is like a pretty cool platform. So Instagram, Facebook, any of those platforms, I’m pretty accessible.

Matt: Super. Well, it’s been a pleasure. Let’s stay in touch. I think I’m going to see you pretty soon anyway.

Jayson: In 48 hours from now.

Matt: Yeah. That’s great by the time this airs we will probably be sitting in the same room.

Jayson: There you go.

Matt: Alright, very good. Thanks, Jason I really appreciate it. I will see you in a couple of days and we’ll go from there.

Jayson: Alright brother. Thanks for the opportunity.

Matt: You bet. Take care. God bless to your success. I’m Matt Theriault here on Thought Leader Thursday. I’ll see you next week on another episode of this Thought Leader Thursday right here on The Epic Real Estate Investing Show.