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Matt is talking about his great new “private financing” program, along with his Memphis-based cash flowing properties on today’s show. Sounds interesting? Then go to CashFlowSavvy.com and get the complete investor’s package.

Real Estate Investing Mastery’s own Joe McCall is also on the program. Joe chats with Matt about his rocky beginning as a real estate investor, how he perfected a creative strategy for flipping lease options, and his current experiences flipping properties in America while living in Prague. You can keep up with Joe’s real estate investing adventures abroad by going to RemotePropertyFlipping.com.


Recommended Resources:

  • It’s been great meeting you virtually. Would you like to meet in person? Our next live event is right around the corner! Go to EpicIntensive.com for the details.
  • Need money? We have secured more than $15,000,000 of funding for the Epic community, people just like you. Get access to fast cash for your real estate investing business with our “one-of-a-kind” credit-based funding program at EpicFastFunding.com
  • Need time? Work on your business rather than in your business by leveraging the time of others.  Access free information and find real estate-trained virtual assistants to help you free up your time.  Learn more at VAsForRealEstate.com.
  • Need training? The ultimate training environment for real estate investors: Version 3.0 of The Epic Pro Academy!  New look, new lessons & new content – we’ve got everything you need to know to get your first paycheck!
  • Need someone to do it all for you? If you’re an Accredited Investor, you can diversify your portfolio by hitching your wagon to our train and share in the profits. Go to EpicWealthFund.com to download the executive summary.




Podcast Transcript:
(Voice Over):  Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast Episode 35. Without further delay, your guru.  Sorry. Your guide to a better life through real estate investing, Matt Theriault.

Matt Theriault:  Hello.  Greetings from The Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast, this is the podcast that is going to show you how to build wealth through creative real estate investing so you’ll have the option to realistically retire in the next 10 years or less. I mean five years or less if you’re really focused so you can enjoy the good life while you’re still young enough to do so.

My name is Matt Theriault, author, full time real estate investor and a family man coming up with a one year anniversary.  My son’s first birthday is coming up here in July.  Very exciting times around here around the Theriault household.

Now if this is your first time listening to the show, welcome.  (I’m) so glad that you found us.  But you’re going to want to do two things.  First, go back and listen to episode one.  You got to listen to the ground rules of the show.

Two, I want you to download the Free Real Estate Investing Course – How to Do Deals, No Money Required.  You can get that for free at FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com.

You see there are 12 different ways of how I transact real estate using none of my own money, none of my own credit.  And of those 12 ways in this program, I show you the first two, the two quickest and easiest and fastest ways to do that.

It’s a step-by-step course of where I unveil the mystery around doing deals with no money or credit.  I show you how to do that in that course at FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com.

Okay. So I got a quick announcement before we get on with today’s show. A few episodes back I’d mentioned that I had launched a guaranteed cash flow program for income properties in Memphis, Memphis, Tennessee.

I’m happy to say that the program is doing very, very, very well. I am happy to say that it has caught the attention of a private equity firm of who I just inked the deal with to provide private financing on these properties.

I mean previously we were doing all cash transactions.  You know the purchase price is very low and very, the, I guess, the, to get into that market, you don’t need a ton of cash but you do need some cash.

But now I’ve been able to cut them out that you need an absolutely in half with this financing programs.  It’s a very cool program. No banks are involved.

I love it when no banks are involved because we don’t have to go through all this stuff. You don’t have to jump through all the hoops. You know, essentially everybody is approved.

If you love that too and you want some more information, you can go to CashFlowSavvy.com there, you can download an investor’s package. It’s one of our investor’s package and that package will give you all the details including a typical property profile.

It’s basically our minimum deal standards.  Every property is going to perform to those standards or better.  Let me give you the details of on all of our guarantees.

The guaranteed cash flow, guaranteed rehab, and, no property management fees for the first year also.  All the while producing 16% to 20% cash-on-cash returns.  Pretty awesome.

So if you’re ready to add another property to your cash flowing portfolio or if you’re ready to pick up your first, this might make sense for you or not.  That’s okay.

I mean you know your situation much better than I do but the information is absolutely free so what could it hurt to go check it out.  Right?

So go to CashFlowSavvy.com, CashFlowSavvy, s-a-v-v-y.com and download an investor’s package and then make your decision.  Okay?

Actually I am jumping on a plane to Memphis as soon as I’m done with this recording to meet a couple of investors to walk them through their new investment properties. I’m going to pick a bunch of pictures.

I’m going to post them at CashFlowSavvy.com so you can see all the before and after pictures, some very recent pictures like as recent as this week as of recording right now.  Okay?

All right.  On today’s show, I’m joined by fellow podcaster, investor, and friend, and I’ve invited him on the show because I never really know where our conversation is going to go.

I mean I ultimately learn something from our conversations every single time. I mean whether it’s a new insight or a new tip or the latest productivity tool, what’s the new cool thing that is increasing efficiency or the latest book or the last thing he really turned on to was a new podcast that he’s listening to .

I mean it doesn’t really matter. It’s always something. It just, I just seem to leave our conversations with some sort of information that has me better after the conversation than I was before the conversation.

So today on the phone, I have one of the hosts from the very popular Real Estate Investing Mastery podcast, right here on iTunes, Real Estate Investing Mastery of which you can subscribe to right here on iTunes.

Just how you subscribed to mine. So please welcome Mr. Joe McCall.  Joe, welcome to the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast.

Joe McCall: Hey, Matt.  How are you doing?

Matt: Doing very good.  Really happy that you’re here and excited to talk about what you’re up to these days.

Joe:  Thank you.

Matt:  Yeah.  You bet.  So I guess it’s just, you know, I guess we’re all have this obligatory starting place in an interview.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  Just kind of tell us how you got started investing in, investing in real estate?

Joe:  Oh well, kind of on accident. I was working for a large, my background is in Civil Engineering and just out of college, I was working for a large engineering and construction company building some power plants.

And uhmm, I was transferred out to California. My wife and I just bought a house in Kansas City, moved out to the Bay area. It was supposed to be for two-year assignment.  It’s actually turned out to be just 10 months because of the project shutdown.

But we’ve, we love going to California but when we were out there, we decided let’s rent this house out for a couple of years.  Then when the project is done, we will come back and live in it.

So I had no idea that renting my house out would be such a nightmare. We had property management company but it was really stressful. I mean I always felt like I was managing the property manager.

The rent was always late. They called every three to, three days to every week for something that needed to be fixed until they got tired of paying the plumber $35 to $50 an hour to fix something that I can do for free in 20 minutes. Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And then the property management was keeping all the late fees and I am struggling every month just to pay the mortgage.

So the job ended then early, we had to come back and we couldn’t, we had no place to live because our house was rented out to these tenants we hated.

Uhm, but we couldn’t kick them out because, you know, they’re always paying their rent before or the end of the month but well, we actually moved to Saint Louis right after that.

Those tenants did buy the house a few months later. They did actually buy the house but that was when it was easy to get mortgage. I said to myself, I’m never going to invest in real estate again.  This is it for me. I don’t like it.

But then I read the book, the famous or the infamous book or whatever you want to say, Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  And uhmm, but what year did that come out by the way?

Matt:  That was 2001 or 2000. I just looked it up actually the other day to see.  How long did I read that? I looked up the copyright date.  It’s been 10 or 11 years.

Joe:  Why, you know, I maybe wrong. I’m not seeing any research to do that to say this but I think that book is, will go down in history as one of the most influential books in the business world history for good or bad.

I think that it had a strong contributing factor to the housing bubble. I maybe wrong but I know so many people whose life was impacted, changed by that book.

And so anyway, I read the book and got excited about real estate.  I had some friends that were, this was in 2004, 2005, the market was sky high.  It was doing really well.  Even in the Midwest where I was at that time.

And you just couldn’t go wrong. I remember reading books and seeing grafts of the last 50 years of real estate and it’s always gone up.  Real estate is always appreciates. I just didn’t think you could go wrong and I started buying a bunch of properties.  You know how easy it was to get loans back then?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:   Another thing was I met this guy, a friend of ours, recommended, he said, you got to talk to this guy, he is down in Austin building a bunch of multi families.

So actually I went down to visit him. I don’t remember why. I just really was excited about real estate and this was the guy to talk to.

I went and spent a day with him. Oh I remember. I was thinking about maybe buying one of his multi-family but he said there’s two books you’ve got to read: Rich Dad, Poor Dad which I already read and the second book was Secrets of a Millionaire Landlord by Robert Shemin.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Secrets of the Millionaire Landlord is a good foundational book, entry-level book but he has a chapter there about lease options.

Now I got so excited about that because there’s an avenue now that I could rent properties out and avoid the typical headaches you get for the most part on traditional land lording.

Because now you have a tenant who wants to buy the house and they’re going to take better care of it because they have a homeowner’s mindset. They are going to take better care than a typical tenant.

Over my years, that truly has been the case. My tenant buyers take better care of my properties. They may not buy the homes as often or as much as I thought they would at the beginning but they do take care better care of the house.

Well anyway, so I started buy a bunch of homes and I bought as many homes as I could. The banks still even had limits back then in 2005.

Matt: Well, like 20?

Joe: I think it was 10 or then.

Matt: Yeah, I think it was 10.

Joe: My mortgage broker was telling me, it’s easy to get around that because you just then bundle those loans into a small business loan and then you can start doing it all over again.

The banks started to say, no you can’t do this anymore and you can’t buy any more houses. So then I started buying a bunch of home subject too. Just taking over existing mortgages.

The reason I  said, Rich Dad, Poor Dad will go down in history as one of the best or worst books, he taught a philosophy of good debt and bad debt.

Maybe I didn’t understand it right but I really bought into the line that debt is good as long as it produces cash flow. So, I was to the philosophy that if I make a hundred, two hundred dollars a month, it’s okay to have all this debt because these properties are always going to appreciate and I’ll just refinance if I need more cash.

So, I got into a world of debt. Lot of private lending, a lot of private lenders on these homes and I didn’t have enough cash in the bank for rainy day. A big rainy day came and you know, well, it was in 2007.

Matt: Uh hmm.

Joe: 2008 when it really hit hard and all of a sudden had a bunch of properties, bunch of vacancies all at once, I had a bunch of, I had a serious cash flow problem and that one or two hundred dollars a month in monthly cash flow disappears pretty quick.

Now all of a sudden, my private lenders are wanting their money back. These homes that I had bought subject to the sellers started wanting me to cash them out.

Here is a crazy thing, Matt. The seller started knocking on the doors of the houses and saying to the tenant buyers, hey, when are you going to buy this house?  The tenant buyers would say, well, who are you?

I mean I would say, I own this house.  And then the tenant buyer would say, I thought Joe owns this house. Then all of a sudden, the red flags started going up.  They start talking to their attorneys and I started getting letters.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Then my private, my private investors get nervous and there’s not enough equity.  They’re all upside down now. I can’t find another investor to replace them.

So anyway, I’d still, that was my, I made a lot of mistakes and one of the biggest ones I made was not understanding cash flow, not understanding wholesaling quick cash strategies around it.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And getting into too much debt.  So that was in 2008, 2009. I had a couple of rehabs that went bad. I lost a ton of money on these rehabs. I mean I bought them right before the market collapsed. I was trying to sell them right after the collapse.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  It was horrible.  They were big rehabs. I mean, medium-priced in Saint Louis $150,000.  These were homes in the $300,000 to $400,000 range.

Matt:  Wow.  Luxury.

Joe:  Oh yeah. Yeah.  Yeah.

Matt: (laughs)

Joe:  Anyways, that’s to make a short story long.  My journey into real estate and then from there, I , we started learning about wholesaling and I’m sure we will talk more about that.

Matt: Sure.  But wow, you definitely went through it.  You experienced it with everyone else.  Looks like it.

Joe:  Yeah. You know, my, uh, I’ll just say this.  Things were a lot better now than they were before. I’ve been working full-time in real estate now for three years. I learned wholesaling. I started really paying off my debts.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And things are a lot better now but my credit took a serious hit. So I’m still digging myself out. I have almost all of my private lenders paid off.  I never miss a payment on those subject to homes.

But I got behind my own mortgage and our own house. All of those homes that I took over subject to. I deeded the properties back to the sellers. Move with tenants with them.

Good tenants. I feel good about that but at the same time it was, I just made a lot of bad investments decisions. I bought into the hype. I didn’t understand the fundamentals and importance of the fundamentals.

I’m glad to still be in the game but I know a lot of people that really got sucker punched and are out of it and moved and probably never get back.  They’ll never get back in.

Matt:  You know, I run into those people every single day. It seems like there’s a guy–.

Joe: Yeah.

Matt:  I’ve got a pretty unique offer going on right now with my wholesaling business and I just knew this guy was going to be all about it because he was so into real estate, you know, maybe three or four years ago.  Oh, about five years ago when I last saw him.

I just knew he was going to be all over this and when  I told him about it. He was like, nope. Not doing real estate, never doing it again. I mean he is on some multi-level marketing company now.  That’s his whole thing and never wants to touch real estate again.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  Okay.

Joe:  You know, I was reading an article. Well I was reading an article in the, based on the Drudge Report. It was from, I forgot which website but the guy who does the Sure Home Index, some economist in some famous index for housing.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  He’s predicting that it’ll be another generation before we see houses come back to the levels that they were before.

Matt:  Yeah.

Joe:  I don’t know how long that is. 20 or 30 years but that’s a big deal.  I think he might be right.

Matt:  Right. It maybe but, you know, but the thing is, you know, people still need a place to live and they still have to pay for that living so the strategy changes.  That’s all.

Joe:  Well you are absolutely right.  I mean what else?  The population in the US is not shrinking.

Matt:  Any means. [laughs]

Joe:  No. I heard somewhere it’s going to double by the year 2050 the population in the US. In the next 40, 50 years, it’s going to double.

But where are those people going to live? I mean there’s always going to be a demand for housing.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  When the market changes, you have to be able to change with it. Do you remember that book, “Who Moved My Cheese??

Matt:  Yes.

Joe:  Did you ever –? I love that. I read that when I was in Corporate America but it really had a profound impact on me. Because to be smart enough to know where your cheese went to and then be able to find it, it’s a stray written from a perspective of some mice.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  And who realize their cheese had been moved and the ones, the smart mice went and found what the new cheese was or something like that.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  But it had a profound impact on me because when the market did started falling apart, I had a ton of leads that didn’t have an equity from people who couldn’t or didn’t want to sell their house.

And so I had no idea how to help them. I would throw these leads away and that’s when I discovered my favorite strategy of wholesaling lease options where –. So I changed with the market. I started looking at, well, okay.  This stuff doesn’t work anymore but that doesn’t mean nothing works anymore.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  So no matter what the market is doing, no matter which market you’re in, in California, in the Midwest, or Florida, there’s always, in my opinion, there’s always a way to make money in real estate.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Anyway.

Matt:  Absolutely. I mean what’s the one statistic that you’d mentioned is the population. I mean, it’s –.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  The year 2007, there are more babies born in 2007 than any other year in history.  And we have the baby boomers that are responsible for this last real estate boom really.

I mean, you hit your money earning years once you get into your late mid 40s and into your 50s.  That’s where most people earn most of their money.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  When their income is really exceptional.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  That’s where the baby boomers were and they’re buying their second homes, vacation homes.  They’re buying investment properties and they’re upgrading their current residences.

You know, that really drove it.  Then, but you know, you got, what is it?  The echo boomers right behind them, which is a bigger portion of the population in a smaller time period.  I think that the baby boomers are spread out over 14 years?

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  The echo boomers are spread out over 11 years but there are more of them in the 11 years than they are in the 40 years.

Joe:  Wow.

Matt:  Then you got this generation that in 2007, there are more babies born than ever. It’s like the demand is here.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  When you got built-in demand, that’s always a good investment.  You got to figure out how to make it work.

Joe:  Well you know what else, Matt? There will always be a demand for homes in California, Florida, Phoenix, [and Las] Vegas.  These are place where people want to live.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Like I don’t know why people would want to live in Phoenix but it’s –.

Matt:  I know.

Joe:  But some people do and they always will.  I don’t know.  The weather and the, you know, stuff like that but –. So there’s always going to be a demand for housing in California.  Anywhere there’s mountains or coastline, there’s going to be a demand for those kind of houses.

Matt:  Right.  Absolutely.  So the reason why I have you on the show, Joe, is something very unique about you and it’s something that I really profess and when I see it in somebody, I’m attracted to it. I love to him because I love to hear people prove my theories right. [laughs]

Joe:  [laughs]

Matt:  So –.

Joe:  All right.

Matt:  But what you have, you have a very focused or you have a very narrow focus on your investment strategy.  Joe does one thing and Joe does it very, very well.  That’s what I profess is that you find that one thing rather than be a Jack of all trades.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  Just get really good at your one thing.  You completely eliminate the competition.  No one can compete with you if you’re that good and you’re that focused on one strategy.  You have a really unique strategy.  You wholesale lease options.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  That’s what I want you to talk about today.  How did you get into –? Well I guess you kind of already explained it but I’m curious on the wholesaling part and how it all starts?  So let’s just kind of start from the beginning and like how do you find your deals first off? What areas are you looking for?

Joe:  Well I’m, let me tell you how I use to find my deals.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  When, I was in a serious cash flow problem, I dust all of the old courses. I started reading them again. They almost, all of them said wholesaling is foundational element of real estate investing.  You got learn wholesaling and because that’s what puts the cash in your pocket.

You know, you would be doing a bunch of deals with big, you know, with big back end paydays.  But what are you going to do to fill in the gaps?

And so, at that time, I remember thinking, oh, that’s just not sexy. You know, I don’t want to do wholesaling.

I’d rather make a slow dime than a quick nickel.  But then I started realizing wholesaling is important so I, and this is at a time too when I was really frustrated.

I was trying to be a Jack-of-all-trades, doing all these different strategies and not having much success. I just decided, you know what? I’m going to pick one thing and I actually bought, I said, I’m only going to buy one more course and I’m going to do it what it says.

I actually bought two: one of them is Steve Cook’s course on wholesaling, Wholesaling for Quick Cash and another one is Cris Chico’s course on virtual wholesaling.

And I just, I said, I’m going to do what these guys say. I’m not going to question it. I’m just going to, I’m going to send the postcards they said to send.  I’m going to make the offers that they say I make. I’m not going to try to figure out why.  I’m just going to do it.

And uh, my first deal, I mean to my shock, it worked.  And my first deal was a response to a postcard. It was a, I was actually mailing this person about another closer into the city.

She responded and said to me, I got this house way out in the sticks.  It’s about an hour to an hour and a half from downtown Saint Louis.  It’s a three-family.  She wants to sell it.

And I can’t get any calms. It’s really in bad shape.  It’s actually rented. She collects the rent with cash every week from the tenants.  It’s one of those places.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  She doesn’t even have copies of the leases. I told her I’m just not interested.  She begged me to make an offer. She actually called me like three or four times. I finally looked it up and, you know, it had expired the year before for like 130 or 140.

And I couldn’t come up with comps because there’s nothing out there like that.  I didn’t have any cash buyers in that area.  I just said you know what? I can give you 50 for it.  You know what she said, Matt?

Matt:  Yes?

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt: [laughs]

Joe:  She said, okay.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Where, when can I sign the contract?  I was absolutely floored and real nervous and I sent her, I actually met with her. I made sure her son was with her. I heard she has an adult son because I didn’t want to be accused of taking advantage of anybody.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And uhmm, I put every contingency I could think in that contract. I remember it was like two paragraphs of contingencies so that I could get out of it in case I needed to.  I had it in the contract for 50. I sold it the next day for 65.

And uhmm, I mean I just couldn’t believe that it happened and it happened to me.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: I mean this is stuff that you only hear about at those, in the gurus when they come to speak at your local area.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  You know what? I only hear about these things happening in the late night infomercial guys but it actually happened to me.  The stuff actually works.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  I was shocked. I was floored. I got really excited so I started doing a bunch of marketing.  I’m a big fan and big believer of direct mail marketing, direct response marketing.

And so I started spending tons of money on post cards. I was working a full time job and I was forced to kind of outsource as much as I could. So I started developing systems to get my marketing done for me in spite of me using virtual assistance and stuff.

But now I had a problem of getting so many leads and I was throwing away a ton of leads. I got tired of that. I thought there’s got to be a better way.  What can I do with these leads I’m throwing away.

They didn’t have any equity.  If they did, they are not willing to share any of it with me or they didn’t want to sell their house right now.  They could sell it maybe a few years down the road.

So I started thinking about, why can’t –? I love wholesaling, right? I love lease options because options allow you to control property without owning it.

This is the time when I’m like I don’t want to own any more debt. I want to get –. I didn’t want another deal.  Another deal is the last thing I wanted, right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So options, the great thing about option is they allow you to control property without owning it.  You get almost all of the benefits of owning property without owning, without obligating to the debt.  And I think the only exception that I can think of, there are two exceptions that I could think of.

Number one, you can’t borrow private money because you don’t have the deed of the house which is fine with me. I don’t want to borrow any more private money against the house.  I’m trying to get completely out of debt.

And number two, you maybe don’t get the tax benefits by not owning the deed to the house.  So for me, I mean, I grew up but I love options so I ask myself why can’t I wholesale lease options.

And I can get these properties under a contract to lease option them and then I can wholesale that contract to a tenant buyer (or) somebody who wants to live in the house.

Now I didn’t invent this strategy but I never heard of anybody other, anybody else doing that before.  And so I started advertising to friends to my local area, hey, I’ll do a lease option on your property and I’ll just keep $500 of the option deposit money if I find a good tenant buyer.

A lot of people started saying, yeah. Okay. You can do that.  And I realize pretty quickly that it’s a lot of work for just a little bit of money.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And uhmm, my virtual assistant at that time was a lady in Indiana.  (She) said to me, Joe, this other guy I’m working for does something similar to you and he’s making a lot more money I think than you are.  You might want to give him a call.

And I thought, okay. I looked up his website.  He’s doing the same thing I am doing. So I called the guy up and I find that he is keeping the entire option deposit money and he is doing these deals down South in Atlanta but he is doing them from his condo in Florida. He’s got this condo overlooking the ocean.  He is flipping these properties, you know, 1,000 miles away with just a cellphone and a laptop.  And I thought this is really cool so I started digging into it. I started implementing it my own business.

Keep in mind too this was at a time when I was just starting to see some breakthrough at the same time I have this full time job. I was working 60 hours a week on. I was trying to be a good dad, a good husband, and I was failing miserably. I was, I always came home with this tremendous guilt when I’d come home from work because I’d spent half of the day at work doing real estate stuff.  I was getting good performance reviews. I was getting my job done but I was not giving my employer 100%.

I always felt really guilty about that because they’re paying me to work 40 hours a week. I was working 20 to 30 hours a week.  It’s kind of funny maybe my last day at work, he told me, hey, Joe, if you ever want to come back, you know, if it doesn’t work out.  I said, oh, man, if you only knew [laughs].

Matt: [laughs]

Joe:  You would not want me to come back.  And so I felt really guilty about that, I really, really, really wanted to work for myself. I wanted to be an entrepreneur. I wanted to have my own business but I just had no idea how to make it work for me. I’ve seen it work when I only had a few deals here and there when I make some great money but it never really was something that, you know what? I can make a full-time income from this consistently every month.

Well anyway, I started wholesaling these lease options.  Within three months, my part time income doing that surpassed my full time income.  And I got really excited about that because now this is something that is pretty consistent. I can do these deals pretty regularly.  I was spending about 10% of what I was spending before on marketing.

I stopped doing direct mail. I just started focusing, finding leads in Craigslist.  Now my only marketing expense was my virtual assistance. I have these VAs now that were doing the marketing for me.  And so that’s when my life completely changed. I decided to take the big leap of faith. I quit my job and started flipping lease options full time.  It’s, it’s, it’s, I think what you said is real key to that. You had an episode. I wish I remember which one it was in your podcast about focus.  You talked, it’s an episode where you talked about your funny story, the tax lien sale in California.

Matt:  Oh right. Uh huh.

Joe:  You remember what episode that was?

Matt:  Oh probably in the teen somewhere, 15, 16, 17, something like that.

Joe:  It –.  Uh, yeah.  If anybody listening to this, if you’re not listening to it, you should go look it up.  You just talked in there.  I thought it was really, really good about how you need to find your strategy and focus on it and work it until you get it.

It’s okay then branch out to new strategies, you know.  Once you got one done, for what I do, a lot of people just use it as a tool boat but it’s also a great strategy for a full-time income just flipping lease options.  The great thing about this is you can do this virtually anywhere in the country, from anywhere in the world.  You have properties all over in the US, Matt.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  I am in Europe. I am in Prague right now, flipping these lease options in Saint Louis and in California.  That’s, uhmm, I love this business because it gives me the freedom to live the life that I want to live.

Matt:  Right.  Right.  Awesome.  So let’s go to just for someone that might not even know what a lease option is. And option is, you know, you’re purchasing the right to purchase the property somewhere down the road but you don’t actually purchase the property.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  Okay.  And so when you find someone that’s a viable client or viable prospect for your strategy so you paid them an option first.  Is that correct?

Joe:  Yeah.  It’s usually a dollar or $10.  You have to have, it has to be some kind of consideration.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  You have to pay consideration for contract you vow.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  So it’s a dollar, $10, I paid the seller to get the property under an option contract which gives me equitable interest in the property.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  And frankly, any contract is really an option contract for the most part.  Right? Because even a sales contract, you’re going to give yourself a few contigencies to get out of it.  That’s what’s called a unilateral contract.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Any one party has to perform so I have the option to buy the property if I want but the seller has to sell it to me if I decide to exercise my option at a pre-determined price.

Matt:  Right. Right.  So the people you are getting to give you an option to their property on a dollar, $10, these are really motivated people. You find motivated sellers.

Joe:  Here’s a cool thing that I like about it was they don’t have to be the stupid motivated sellers like the lady who was willing to sell her house to me for 30 or 40 cents on the dollar.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: I don’t have to find the most desperate motivated sellers and I don’t have to try to negotitate them and beat them down on price.  This, I can do this with people who are motivated and semi-motivated.

Sometimes not even that motivated. They just retire at being a landlord and they want to rent the house now to somebody who wants to buy it.  So they, I do go after the motivated sellers. I mean the more I’ve been doing this, the better I get at, if they’re not motivated and ready to do a deal today then  I just get off the phone.  You know, I put them in my follow up list.

So I really try hard to be off the phone in 2 to 5 minutes whenever I am talking to a seller. I believe in building rapport.  That’s important. I understand that but it’s probably more important when you are negotiating a really good price on the house but what I do. My offer is really simple. I just ask the seller: what do you want for your house?  Okay. I’ll get it for you.  Okay.  That’s what, that’s my offer.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And so if they’re not ready to sign the agreement today then they’re not ready. I’m not going to waste my time, any more of my time with them. I’m going to move to the next one so the, that’s kind of time, it’s time management but it’s also realizing that you’re in business to make money today.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe: If you’re not, you have to focus your business like a laser on activities that are making you money today.  Many times, we found the trap of over analyzing properties, doing too much research.  Is that, those stuff that you are, that you think is important, you know.

A lot of times I see investors fall into the trap of using social, too much social media for their investing business. I believe in social media but all that time that you’re spending, hours and days on social media, is that really making you any money today?  Probably not.

What are some things you could be doing today to start making you money?  Well talking to sellers for one of them is a really good activity.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Right?  Marketing –.  Don’t get me started on marketing. I’m a big believer in that.  We’re not in the real estate business.  We’re in the sales and marketing business.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So that is, that’s what this is all about. That’s what we need to focus on as investors is getting leads.  If leads are the lifeblood of your business and if you have a lot of leads, you’re not going to have a problem doing deals.

Depending on your strategy, the motivation level when you’re doing options or, you don’t have to have the super motivated sellers that are ready to just give you their property for pennies in the barrel.  You can do this strategy with a much wider range of sellers.  Does that makes sense?

Matt:  Yeah.  Absolutely.  Absolutely.  So your pitch to the owner, you’re putting this under option for $10.  You’re going to go out and find someone to flip this to.

Joe:  Correct.

Matt:  So you obviously collect more of a normal type of option fee from the person you are flipping to.

Joe:  Well yeah. I create, this is what I am starting to do more of lately. I am starting to create more and more notes.  That’s something that we can talk about maybe later but what I do though is I take the option.

I have an option now on this property. I can sell that option to somebody else for any price I would want.  I can sell that option to anybody I want for whatever I want.  The option spells out the terms of the lease option.  The price of the homes is going to be this.  The rent is going to be this.  The rent credits are going to be this. They’re going to have two years to buy the house or whatever.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  That’s all spelled out.  Now I’m going to go out and find tenant buyer.  Now I am not a realtor. I am actually working on getting license. I’ve already taken the test. When I get back to the States, I’m going to finish all of that numbing paperwork.

So when I get back, I’ll become a realtor but I’m not finding tenants for the seller or I’m not finding business for the seller.  I’m not matching these two people together because you need your license to do that.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  But what I am doing is I have the property under contract.  It’s just like wholesaling, the traditional wholesaling deal. I have a property under contract. I’m selling or signing that contract to somebody else.

Now I do recommend hiring realtors to help you do the marketing and stuff like that but then that realtor now is representing me.  They’re representing me and they’re selling my option on that property.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So anyway, that’s kind of how I –.  That’s one of the reasons why I can outsource so much of this because I have the VAs doing the marketing for me. I now have VAs that are actually talking to the sellers. I have local realtors that are selling the homes and marketing the homes for me.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So that can, you can literally outsource 75%, 85%, or 95% of this business.  If you have the systems in place and you know what you’re doing.

Matt:  Yup.  Right.

Joe:  So okay, your question is how do I get paid I think.

Matt:  Right.  Yeah. There you go. [laughs]

Joe:  [laughs] Well I have the property under option now for –.  I put down $10 to pick the property and put it on option. I’m going to advertise that house. I have this other telling me what they want to walk away with.

Let’s just say, they say, I want $150,000 for this house. I’m going to advertise that option for, well I’m going to set the option price maybe at $160,000.  So the seller wants $150,000, I’m going to bump that price up to $160,000.

That’s going to cover my profit, the option deposit that I am keeping and the rent credits that the tenant buyers are going to get to cover their closing cost.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So I’m going to now advertise the house as a lease option for a tenant buyer.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  A tenant buyer sometimes advertises what kind of option deposit I want. Sometimes I won’t.  Sometimes if I know it’s going to be harder house to sell, I won’t advertise a specific number because I’ll be willing to create a note for that option deposit.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So anyway, the, I’ll advertise it for an option price of $160,000 (and) for rent of $1,000 or whatever the seller wants.  So again, I’m wholesaling this contract so I do not stay in the middle. I am completely out of this deal once I sign my contract. All of my liability and responsibility is gone.  It’s removed so I advertise it now as a lease option.

The money that the tenant buyer puts down goes to me but I start with the paperwork where that tenant buyer will get that option deposit back to part of their future down payment or as a credit to the purchase price if and when they buy the house a year or two down the road.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So basically assigning my lead option to the seller, the seller understands.  Everybody understands upfront how I am getting paid.  They understand I am not hiring anything.  The seller understands. I keep my options flexible too so they’re not closed.  In other words, the seller can still sell their house and still rent it on their own.  If they do sell or rent it before I do then they can cancel my contract. I don’t get paid anything.

Matt:  Hmm.

Joe:  So that’s one of the reasons why I do lose some deals that way but I think I gained more deals. I do more deals that way because I’m willing to–.  I am able to sign up more sellers because of that.

Matt:  Sure.  There’s the big answer for the $1, $10 option.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  Right.  Awesome.  I find that, you know, like you said you will lose some deals but if you’re dealing straight with people and you’re not, you know, strong arming them, you’re probably going to get more deals that will work out then not –.

Joe:  Well here’s a cool thing, Matt.  You can create notes for these options.  Then that’s something that I am really starting to focus more and more on one of my mentors.  His name Claude Diamond.  He has taught me this.  I’ve known this for a long time but it wasn’t until just like recently a few months ago. I started thinking more and more about this.  There’s a lot of deals that I have lost because I waited to find tenant buyer who had a large option deposit.

And if I would have accepted somebody who had good income but maybe didn’t have the large option deposit that I wanted. If I could have taken whatever they have then created a note to cover the difference.  I would be sitting on a very nice pile of monthly residual passive income.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And the more I do this business, you know how important cash flow is in an income,  passive income.

Matt:  Everything.

Joe:  Now you could –.  Right.  Now you could argue, well, okay.  That’s not really passive income.  Maybe you are right but I looked at the numbers. If you just figured, I don’t remember what they are exactly but if you just created 2 to 4 of these notes every month at $250 to $500 a month per note.  Okay?

You can be sitting on $10,000 a month coming in on these notes every month within 10 to 12 months.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Now if you think about it, I mean you tell a story of, I don’t know if you told your podcaster, maybe you just told us.  One of your goals is to get a house on Malibu?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Right?  And what’s your strategy for doing that?

Matt:  Yeah.  Sure.  We’re on track for that too to hit it on November.  Purchasing rental property in Midwest.

Joe:  Yes.

Matt:  I’m really focused on Memphis right now which is that cash on cash is really good there.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  But producing or acquiring enough rental income there to pay a rental here in Malibu, a house that I couldn’t afford.  You know, we’re talking about $4 million or $5 million house and maybe “couldn’t” is a strong word but “wouldn’t” and “I don’t want to.” I don’t want a $10,000, $12,000 mortgage when I can have exact same lifestyle for a $6,000-rent.  You know, I got my rental property paying for that.

Joe:  Yes.

Matt: [laughs]

Joe:  [laughs]  Well you know, honestly, Matt. It was that story when you told us that a few months ago. It got really got me thinking about income, a passive income.  I don’t want to own a bunch of real estate properties even though the cash-on-cash return is great.

In my stage in my business in my life right now, I am trying to pay off completely all my debts.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So I don’t want to own any more properties right now.  That’s just my personal strategy belief right now but I love what you’re doing with the idea of creating cash flow.  You also said something one time that was really unique. I never looked at it this way before.

There’ a big difference between, oh, what did you say? Uh, earn $200 a month –/

Matt:  Oh the difference between $200 of cash and $200 of cash flow?

Joe:  Yes.  Yes.  Yes.

Matt:  Yeah.

Joe: Tell that again.  This is really good.

Matt:  Well sure.  Yeah.  Like $200 of cash, you know a lot of people will reject a passive income property or passive income opportunity for $200.  You know, maybe even the notes that you are talking about might be a perfect example as well.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  They might turn down that $200 of cash, that cash flow because they mistake it for $200 of just cash and –.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  And you know, $200 of cash doesn’t have that much of an impact on our lives. It’s a pair of Jordan these days and that’s it.

Joe:  [laughs]

Matt:  But and then it’s gone.  But $200 a month of cash flow when you actually look into our market and really I mean, it’s going to be this way for a really long time that, you know, what it takes how much money you have to put into the bank.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  Go out and find the most aggressive, highest, most liberal savings account you can find, you know, you’re looking at that you have a deposit of, you know, somewhere in the realm of $200,000 to $250,000 just to create $200 of cash flow.

Joe:  Yes.

Matt:  So it’s, you know, what’s easier to do is or which one is easier to save $250,000 and put it into the bank so you can get $200 a month in cash flow or go out and write a note on a $5,000 option.

Joe:  Uh hmm.

Matt:  You know?

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  And all of a sudden –.

Joe:  You’re absolutely –.  When you realize that, this gets me excited.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  When you, when that clicks in your brain, the potential is huge.  You could easily, if you, if I can, I would love the idea of living in La Jolla on a $6,000 a month.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Okay. Now I don’t want to spend my hard earned money, you know, $6,000 a month.  That’s a lot of money.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  I don’t want, I don’t want to take the like the blood, sweat, and tears, the hard work, hardworking money to pay for that. What I mean by that is I think your strategy of finding investments like it give you that kind of cash flow that would pay for that.  I think it’s really a wise investment and a wise use of your time and energy so what do you do?

You can, I think there’s two main ways in real estate right now to get that kind of goal.  Number one, is to buy properties that have serious cash-on-cash return, solid. I mean solid cash-to-cash returns.

The numbers that you are talking about, Matt, of $200 a month that is after all of your expenses.  Right?  That’s after taxes and insurance.  That’s after property management fees and you’re probably saving 15% to 20% on vacancies and  –.

Matt:  Well get this. Get this, Joe. Get this.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  In Memphis right now, I’m getting 20% cash on cash owning outright.  No debt. I’m getting 20%. [laughs]

Joe: [laughs] Right.  That’s just fantastic

Matt:  .  There’s no leverage.  So it’s like, you know, it’s kind of a no brainer but anyway, go ahead.

Joe:  When you could partner with other investors, the private investors become partners on these deals.  You know, then that’s a whole another strategy, that’s a strategy that I get excited about too.  Okay.  Number one I think right now is buying good, solid cash flowing properties.  They’re everywhere right now.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  And so the number two I think it’s really exciting is creating notes.  You can create notes for anything.  It may not even be a lease option but you might be able to, Claude, he was telling me a story.  He just collected the last $2500 on a note that he created on an option on a multi-family five years ago.

Matt:  Wow.

Joe:  All right.  What had happen is he found a free and clear seller through his marketing rather multi-family.  They just wanted to get rid of it but they weren’t willing to drop it to as low as what Claude was willing to buy it for.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So you got to think about deals when you’re marketing is how can I make this marketable to other investors that I want to wholesale this to.  Right?  Or how can I make this marketable to the retail buyer?

So you, he’s assuming about well, what’s more important to the seller?  He asked, what’s more important to you? Price or terms? I heard you talk about this a lot.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And the seller says, price.  I really want this price but I can’t go any lower than that.  And so, Claude then said, all right. I’ll get you that price if you give me my terms. And the seller says, what are your terms?  Well whatever it was. I don’t remember all the specifics but it’s basically owner financed. You got this property under contract to owner finance it but like zero down, $2,000 a month or whatever but it rented for $5,000 a month, total of all of the units whatever.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So then you turned around and advertised it as a zero down(payment) deal to an investor.  He created a note for the downpayment.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  He found an investor who is willing to pay $2,500 a month to him so I think maybe the downpayment was $100,000. I don’t know. $50,000.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And so he offered to sell this property to an investor for $50,000 downpayment. He just passed on whatever payments that the seller wanted. He just passed them on to the investor.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Then he said to the investor, by the way, you know, how much can you put down now and how much can you afford per month? So you negotiate the terms of the note but he also sweetened the deal for the investor to make it more marketable.  He advertised it as “I won’t charge you any interest on this note.”  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So now this investor takes over this property and pays Claude $2,500 a month every month for five years on this note for this property. And even after looking for payments for the note and paying the original owner the monthly payments.  He is still cash flowing really, really, really well.

Anyway, my whole point in all this is you can create notes on almost any type of deal.  It maybe something that you would pass up if you were trying to wholesale it traditionally but maybe there is a way you could structure some kind of owner financing or some kind of lease option and still give the seller what they want as long as they’re willing to wait for it.  Then to turn around and sell it to another investor, to a tenant buyer to a retail buyer and create a note for that down payment.  I get excited about that because you, it does, it’s not, it would not take long to make a passive income of over $10,000 a month.

What could that do for you? I mean that’s $10,000 a month where if you wanted to take the next three months off and go to Tahiti. You can do that. All right? Or you can go live in that $5 million mansion in Malibu if you wanted and not have to worry about making a payment.  Right?  Because somebody else is making it for you.  I love that.

Matt:  Yup. If you really, we talked, we kind of opened up the show talking about Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and his new definition of wealth was just getting your passive income to exceed your expenses.

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  So I’d much rather have the $10,000 a month that I know is coming in every single month than, you know, working to save the $10 million I got to put in the bank to create that $10,000 a month.  Like you said, you could in 12 months or less you could create $10,000 a month in passive income but how long would it take for you to create $10 million?

Joe:  Right.

Matt:  It takes, you know, a lifetime to ever get there.

Joe:  Here’s a cool thing about [inaudible 54:46] is that you don’t have to use your own cash.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And you don’t have to get a loan or mortgage on them.  Right?  You don’t have to go out and take over the loan or get a new mortgage or use your own cash or use a private investor.  Now there’s a place for that. I understand that.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: — is you could create notes on these options and you don’t have any obligations. I’m trying to get rid of all obligations in my life except to love God and love my family. Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: I don’t want any other obligations. I don’t want to owe any man anything except to love like the Bible says. Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So how can I do that in my business?  Well why not create these notes and, you know, you, the default rate, I don’t know, 20% on the high end. Claude, he has probably literally at least a couple hundred (200) notes because he has been doing this for years and years.  His default rate, he says is about 7% to 8%.  So that’s to, even 20% which is a high number or a high rate of default.  That is still really income that you didn’t spend any money for.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Or you are using any of your own capital for.

Matt:  Right. Right.  Hey, let me ask you.  When you create a note for an option, are you collateralizing it in any way?

Joe:  Uhh, it depends. Now you could if you wanted to because here’s the thing.  Let’s say you collateralize it for some jewelries or some car or a boat.  If that person who bought that option is facing really tough and if they’re struggling, I don’t know if I have the heart to kick them in the curb and take their car away from them so you could collateralize it.  You can’t record. I don’t know.  Maybe it’s not the right thing to do but you probably should not record that note against the property.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Because you don’t own the property.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  But maybe there is some way where you could do that.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  But, do I take personal guarantee, promise? I, you know, I don’t but I think it might depend on the deal. If it’s a big deal, I maybe try to do that but I’ve not had a big note more than $500 or $700 yet.

Well here’s the other thing that’s really important when you are creating notes.  You have to have it set up where you get their credit card information, their Paypal information, and their checking account information.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  I like setting up the payments to be automatically withdrawn from their checking account every two weeks when they get paid.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: So if they get paid every second Friday, I’m going to withdraw my half of my monthly payment.  You know, whatever it is.  Every two weeks automatically from their checking accounts so they don’t even have to –.  I don’t have to worry about them sending me a check.  They just happen automatically.

So when you find that really helps a lot when you get it set up like that when withdrawn from their account every month.

Matt:  Uh hmm. Uh hmm.  Uh hmm.

Joe: So usually if they default on that note, usually its because they lost their job or they’re bankruptcy.  I could pursue that but is it worth my energy and time? You know, I don’t think so. Maybe I’ll just let those go.  That has happened to me once or twice.

Matt:  Got it.  Got it.

Joe:  What did I have in it? What did I have in it?

Matt:  All right.  Totally.  Just a little bit of sweat.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  Uh hmm.  Totally.  No I like it.  It’s, I’m thinking of a couple of opportunities I am working right now where if I create a note I could actually close those deals like maybe as soon as I get off this phone call. [laughs] So –.

Joe:  Here’s the thing.  How long would it take you –?  What if you just started creating notes to get to your $6,000 goal?

Matt:  Uh hmm. Uh hmm.  Well that’s somewhat of the strategy I am doing in Memphis right now so it’s definitely, I’m definitely on the same wave length. I’m just, you just kind of opened up my eyes to maybe a couple of other areas where I could do the same strategy in.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  Yeah.  Definitely.

Joe:  That’s a great thing about creative real estate is you get to be creative and if you can think outside the box.  Here’s the thing. We’re talking before all of this about finding the strategies that work in this market.

Maybe you think creating notes while the best strategy when the market was screaming hot.  It wasn’t a bad strategy but now it’s a really good strategy I think because there’s a lot of people out there who can’t sell their house and a lot more people who can’t buy a house because their credit is shot.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: But they want to buy a house. They want to sell their house.  They’re good people.  Bad things happen to good people. They lost their jobs. They have medical bills that they can’t pay for. They don’t want to rent another house. They want to buy another house.

They need another chance at homeownership so they may have really solid income then they’re on their job for 10 years.  But they had a spouse lost a job or they went through a bitter divorce.  Something bad happened and they don’t maybe have the $5,000 or $10,000 that you want for it, the deposit to lease option a home but they have the income to pay for it. So why not take that a note on those properties?  So you could sell those notes again like we’ve been talking about.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  Two to 10 buyers or two investors and even retail buyers.

Matt:  Right.  Right.  Have you thought of reselling the notes?

Joe:  Well that’s –.  You could. Yeah.

Matt:  Uh hmm.  Right.

Joe:  So many investors at, I don’t think it’s as hot as a strategy that it used to be but I remember a few years ago that one of the hottest strategies was going out and buying note.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And finding notes and negotiating them and buying them and selling them to brokers and make money as middlemen or whatever.  Why not just create your own notes? So that’s maybe an exit strategy that you could go out and sell these notes once you have them under a contract that they can perform.  You need some kind of history.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: Before you can sell it.

Matt:  Right.  Indeed.  Awesome.  So tell me you are in Prague right now.

Joe:  Yes.

Matt:  You are out there.  Are you out there to prove a point or is it an experiment that you can flip remote? Tell me about your journey and how you ended up there? What you are doing out there?

Joe:  [laughs]  Well, we live in Prague.  This is Czech Republic.  That’s not Czechoslovakia, Czech Republic and Slovakia.  They’re two different countries.

Matt:  Uh huh.

Joe:  But anyway, we are out here in 1998.  My wife and I got married when I was in college. I did a Student Exchange Program in the Czech Republic.  We got married a week later.  We moved out here in Prague for six months. We really fell in love with the city.  We made a lot of different friends here.  We, you know, for the first six months [inaudible 01:02].  We always want to come back.

And so we have four kids and recently we were talking about well, why don’t we go back to Prague? We can’t go for like a week or two weeks.  With kids, it’s difficult.  It’s a challenge traveling overseas.  Well, we thought, why don’t we go for a couple of weeks?

I’m sorry, a couple of months.  Why don’t we go for a couple of months?  So I got online, you know, homeaway.com and I found some really incredible flats or two-bedroom apartments right in the heart of Prague in the best areas for a very reasonably priced, furnished and everything.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  With just minutes of walks, you know, minutes away from the most beautiful places and things to see in Prague.  So we said, let’s do it.  My wife home schools our kids.  They’re 8, 6, 3, and 1. So she home schools the 8- and the 6-year old.

Matt:  Wow.

Joe: And so we said, let’s do it.  I decided to, I’m already flipping properties virtually in Saint Louis.  Right?  So I don’t go see the home or meet the sellers. I don’t even talk to the sellers anymore but so I am already doing the stuff virtually in Saint Louis.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So I thought, well, why don’t I do, start, and open up a new market or whatever and start marketing in a new market.  And so I started thinking more about that. I thought, well why don’t I blog about it?

Because I love to teach, I really do. I make a very good money flipping real estate but I also make good money teaching and coaching people how to do what I am doing.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  I really enjoy that. I find it, honestly, I find it more fulfilling teaching and coaching them to actually do deals but I still do deals because I enjoy that as well.  So I thought well, why don’t I create a blog and make it free and just kind of show people what I am doing and how I am doing it.

Not necessarily to prove it can be done because I don’t want to set myself up, you know, like that.  But just to kind of teach and to show people that yes you can do this virtually, remotely from anywhere in the world.  All you need, technology today is absolutely astonishing.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  All you need is a laptop and high speed Internet.  You can do this business from anywhere in the world.  We’re on Skype right now.  It’s absolutely free.  [laughs]

Matt: [laughs]

Joe:  I have about three or four full time virtual assistants right now that are doing marketing for me in this new city.  I actually blog about it. I created a blog at RemoteFlippingProperty.com. I just, we’ve been here almost two weeks now.

Marketing is going full speed ahead.  We’re getting pretty much in a day overwhelming leads.  We just did a batch of yellow letters and got about 15% response rate.

Matt:  Awesome.

Joe:  We’re doing a bunch of Craigslist marketing, emails, text messages, and cold calls.  We’re getting way more leads than we could handle so part of the problem is not getting the leads but it’s getting the systems in place to handle all the leads. Right?

So but I am blogging about this.  You know, my tag line is “flipping properties with a laptop while traveling the world with my family.”  And so our goal is to at least once a year, maybe twice a year, go visit a new country somewhere in the world.

And you know, it’s a big world.  My kids, we live in a really nice suburban neighborhood in Saint Louis.  There’s a whole lot more out there than what we are looking at.  We probably are in the top 5% of the entire world for wealth.  Right?

We need to look at 95% of the world really lives.  We are very fortunate in America to live the way we do.  So I want, I’d like my kids to grow up –.  Can you imagine though going over the course of your life visiting a new country every year?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  My youngest daughter is 18.  She will have visited 18 different countries so that gets me excited. I really think that’s cool. I love the idea of what I call location independence.  Setting up life on my terms. I’m part of this coaching program called LifeOnaire, instead of millionaire, it’s LifeOnaire.  And one of the things that really opened my eyes to was designing a business to revolve around your life.  So many of us, we have a business. We have a 40-hour a week job.  We have, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs that are just really a slave to their own job.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So our life then revolves around our business or revolves around our jobs. I realize some people don’t have a choice.  They have to do that.  Right?  But why not, why can’t we design our lives first the way we want our life to be.  You know, I want to be home and have lunch in a day with my kids.

I want to be able to take them to the zoo on a Thursday or I want to be able to travel the world and go somewhere for two months.  Right?

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  So I want to design my life first.  Create a vision for my life. Then secondly, design a business that fits around my life.  So it’s a matter of controlling and dictating life on a way that’s what is more important to me.  My priorities and my values.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe: And I want to have a business that supports my lifestyle not trying to have a life that supports my business so that’s what I’m trying to live out here.  You know, I’m learning as we go.  It’s really awesome when one of my kids the other day said, my wife asked them, what do you like so much about in Prague?  One of them said, well we get to go do a bunch of things together as a family and we get to hang out with Dad.

Matt:  That’s cool.

Joe:  So everyday almost, we’re going and doing things, seeing cities, and traveling.  We were in London.  We’re going to Italy in a couple of weeks.  There’s just a gazillion things to see and do here in Prague. I am trying to limit my work to only 3 to 4 hours a day.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  And we take a lot of time to go see things and do things.  And we get to help in volunteer at this church that this English-speaking church that’s here in Prague which we really enjoy as well.

So that is kind of what I am doing and this blog I’m going to be updating it regularly with my progress and what’s going on?  It’s not going, blog is not going to end when I get back to Saint Louis. I’m going to still continue doing marketing and trying to do deals in this market even after I get back to the States.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  So it’s going to be something I’m going to be continually updating and just doing a lot of good, valuable, free content.

Matt:  Right.

Joe:  With this blog.

Matt:  Exciting.  You don’t hear that story everyday.  [laughs]

Joe: [laughs]

Matt:  So congratulations for you. I mean picking up a family of what five kids?

Joe:  Four kids.  Yeah.  We’re collecting them.

Matt:  You’re collecting them.  Got it.  Four kids and a wife, let’s go and do it.  Very inspiring.  Awesome.  And if they want to follow along the name of your website is again?

Joe:  RemotePropertyFlipping.com

Matt: RemotePropertyFlipping.com.  Got it.

Joe:  And the reason why I called it that is because I really like the term “virtual wholesaling” but that term doesn’t really resonate with European audiences. I wanted to create a blog that even Europeans specifically people in England and even people here in the Czech Republic can look at this stuff and think, you know what? I can do this here in my own country.  Even though the laws of real estate are completely different.  They’re not handled the same.

I think any place in the world where you get a property under contract to buy it, you can sell that contract to somebody else.  Right?

I think the fundamental principles are the same of marketing, of negotiating, sales, and things like that.  They work in any country but the cool thing is a European could take this and start implementing it even in their own country or if they wanted to, Matt, they could start flipping properties in the US.  That’s what I think is really exciting.  Somebody who really gets a hold of this and can bold, decisive, massive action.  Even for somebody in England can flip start flipping properties just like I am doing in the US.

When there’s a will, there’s a way so if I can do it with all the mistakes I’ve made and the struggles that I have. I really think almost anybody can do it.

Matt:  Uh hmm.  Awesome.  Awesome.  Well, Joe –.

Joe:  Go for it.

Matt:  Absolutely.  Just go for it.  Life is so short anyway.  You know?

Joe: Yeah. Yes.

Matt:  [laughs]

Joe: [laughs]

Matt:  That’s sweet.  You know I just had my first son and just the idea of –.  I think when I was growing up, I’d met some kids here and there.  Maybe one in elementary school, one in the middle school, one in high school that they had been to so many places with their family.

Joe:  Yeah.

Matt:  There were just something so unique and cool about them.  You know?

Joe:  Uh hmm.

Matt:  They just have a different posture, a different attitude, and a different outlook on life.  You know, I think that’s one of the greatest gifts that you’re actually giving to your kids right now is that exposure to worldwide culture and different areas also.

Joe:  There’s a great blog but I haven’t read it in a few weeks but it’s called DiscoverShareInspire.com.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  DiscoverShareInspire.  It’s about this family of four or five kids.  I don’t know what it is.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  – who were traveling from Alaska down to Argentina or Chile.  Whatever the most Southern country is.  They are in South America.  They’re driving a whole way in the truck and camping the whole way, driving their diesel truck with vegetable oil.

They’re blogging about it their whole way down.  It’s an amazing blog and if anybody is interested in that sort of thing, they definitely have more experience in traveling with kids than we have but the cool thing is there are a hundred or even thousands of people out there that are doing something similar to what I am doing and they’re blogging about it.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  You can find them and read about their journey.  There’s a great podcast that I also listen to called the lifestyle business podcast.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  It’s based on a similar content.  These guys have a business in the US but their staff is spread around the entire world.  Right?

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  They can live anywhere they want.  With the power of outsourcing and the Internet, you can literally have a business that you can run from anywhere in the world.  See there’s no more limits.  You don’t have to be tied to an office.  You don’t have to answer to a boss.  You don’t have to, you know we were in Colorado back in July.

Matt: Uh hmm.

Joe:  And we decided to go for a week and a half to hang out with some friends. We just decided last minute, you know what? Let’s go to Estes Park and stay for another week.  That’s when it really hit me.  You know what? How nice, how cool is it that I don’t have to ask for vacation?

I can still do my job from the middle of the Rocky’s in Colorado.  My job, I mean my work, I can still do my business. I can still operate my business in Colorado. I don’t have to ask for an employer for any time off. I don’t have to worry about trading my sick days for vacation days or working. I remember those, being so stressed out every year when I get my generous two weeks of vacation.

Matt:  Uh hmm.

Joe:  Planning my year out, well, okay, I’m going to use depending on the 25th falls.  Right?  So I am going to use one or two vacation days here.  I’m going to use one or two vacation days here. Are we going to my parents or my wife’s parents or –?

So we can do anything we want now.  I think this is an exciting time to be alive, this is an exciting time to be in business.

Matt:  Uh hmm.  Indeed.  Well awesome, Joe. I think this is officially my longest podcast ever. So congratulations.  Thanks for being a part of it with me/

Joe:  [laughs]

Matt: [laughs] Time flies when you’re having fun.

Joe:  You can split it up into two podcasts if you like.

Matt:  Yeah.  No. I’m going to keep this together.  This is great.  I’m going to let you go. I got your buddy. I’m interviewing your partner here in the next 10 minutes.

Joe:  Yes. That would be awesome.

Matt:  I’m excited to talk to Alex as well.  I’ll defitnitely split those two up though. [laughs] Okay?

Joe:  Yeah. Yeah.  Say hi to Alex for me.

Matt:  Will do, And that’s RemotePropertyFlipping.com where they can follow you along.

Joe:  Yeah and my other podcast where you probably already talked about in the intro.

Matt:  Sure.

Joe:  But my other podcast is RealEstateInvestingMastery.com. RealEstateInvestingMastery.com.  We just interview people.  It’s a good podcast. There are some really good real estate investing related podcasts out there. I’m just proud to be, I think, one of them.  You know? You got a great podcast. Sean Terry does.  There are some new guys coming up that have some great podcasts.

I’m not worried at all about “competition.” I am saying that with air quotes because there is plenty of deals out there. I love having the variety of perspectives.  There’s a big need for good quality real estate education out there.  I think podcasting is a great avenue to share those kind of resources, you know.

We have listeners from Afghanistan, from Korea, I think South Korea probably.  It’s amazing when you look, have you ever looked into your stats to see where your listeners are coming from, Matt?

Matt:  Yeah.  It’s amazing [laughs]

Joe:  All over the world. It’s absolutely astonishing.

Matt:  Absolutely.

Joe:  But anyway, thanks for having me, Matt.

Matt:  You bet. Definitely I want to do this again. Okay? So are you open to this in the future?

Joe:  Definitely.  Yeah.  Maybe when you get back to the States, you can share more about your story and how many deals you did form Italy.

Matt:  [laughs]

Joe: [laughs] From Prague.

Matt:  Right but you are going to Italy.  Right?

Joe:  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.  We will be there for probably three or four days.

Matt:  Perfect.  Have a blast, dude.  We will chat soon.

Joe:  Okay. Take care.  Thanks, Matt.

Matt:  Bye, Joe.

Joe:  Bye. Bye.

Matt:   So until next time. As a very wise person once said, “May you live all the days of your life.” To your success.  I am Matt Theriault.  Living the dream.


Hi. This is Roger.  Now I’ve experienced my share of real estate gurus. I tried to learn from a lot of different people. I’ve spent countless dollars on real estate boot camps. I have a library full of real estate books but no one has ever put me into action quite like Matt and his Academy.

I am actually doing real estate deals and making money thanks to you Matt. Your Academy is the real thing.  Thank you so much. I really appreciate all the help and effort that you put into helping others. Thanks and keep it up.

(Voice Over):  Thank you for spending this time with Matt Theriault and the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast.  When you have time, stop by iTunes to leave your comments and let us know what you think of this show.

And if you haven’t done so already, get started investing today by visiting FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com to access Matt’s free course on how to deals, no money required.  Until next time.  To your success, to your success, to your success.

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