How to Invest in Multi-Family Real Estate | EREI 30

For anyone looking to gain financial independence through real estate, investing in multi-family properties is an excellent strategy for creating tons of cashflow.

On today’s show, Matt is talking to John Dessauer, one of the nation’s foremost multi-family real estate investors. Listen to the podcast to discover how it’s possible to “force appreciation” on multi-family units.

Now is the time to download Matt’s free real estate investing course at https://FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com. Ready to move to the next level in your investing education? Find out how to join the Epic Pro Academy at https://EpicProAcademy.com.

 

Recommended Resources:

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  • Need training? The ultimate training environment for real estate investors: Version 3.0 of The Epic Pro Academy!  New look, new lessons & new content – we’ve got everything you need to know to get your first paycheck!
  • Need someone to do it all for you? If you’re an Accredited Investor, you can diversify your portfolio by hitching your wagon to our train and share in the profits. Go to EpicWealthFund.com to download the executive summary.

 

 

 

Podcast Transcript:
(Voice Over):  Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast Episode Thirty. Without further delay, your guru.  Sorry. Your guide to a better life, the real estate investor, Matt Theriault.

Matt Theriault:  Hello.  Greetings from The Epic Real Estate Investing Podcast.  The podcast that will show you how to build wealth through creative real estate investing.

That’s what we will discuss today and for a long time to come so you’ll have the option to realistically retire in the next 10 years or less.  And enjoy the good life while you’re still young enough to do so.

My name is Matt Theriault, author, full time real estate investor and family man.  Now if this is your first time listening to the show.  You’re going to want to do two things.

First, go back and listen to episode one so you get the ground rules of the show. You will have an idea what this is all about. And two, download the Free Real Estate Investing Course – How to Do Deals, No Money Required.

You can get that for free at FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com. It’s a step-by-step course of where I unveil the mystery around doing deals with no money or credit.  There’s really nothing mysterious about it as long as you know how to do it.

Okay? So I’ve got the great interview for you today.  I’m very excited about it because it happens to be one of my mentors and if not a personal mentor.

I didn’t work along side this gentleman but he was a mentor from a distance for sure. He was actually one of my instructors when I first got started. I had taken his two-day class on Multi-family Investing.

I was literally blown away. I would never been exposed to anything like that before.  I was in his class where I really started to recognize how many different ways there are to make money in real estate particularly with multi-family dwellings. I mean it’s amazing.

And so what I really enjoyed about it is the way he taught class and the way that he walks the class through deals.  And he walked his class and the deals and he would share his mindset.

He would share his thoughts at every little corner.  Every time he analyze the deal, every little nook and cranny and said here’s what I am thinking here.  Here’s what I’m thinking there.

And every time he negotiated with the seller.  He would say here is my intent here.  Here is what I am thinking here.  It really just opened my eyes as to what’s possible with real estate.

Now as excited as I was after the class and about multi-family dwellings, it was a little intimidating. I have to admit. It was a little intimidating at that time so I just, I went off with it and followed this up.

Another instructor and really embraced single family houses and specifically the creative acquisitions aspect of it. I didn’t have a lot of money when I first got started so I had to figure how to do it with no money.

And so that is what I really embraced and that’s just turned out to be my thing. And that has gotten me where I am today.  Now as you know, I’ve been sharing intermittently over the last few months how I finally took a dive into the multi-family arena.

I finally took down my first building and everything is turning out awesome. Now in hindsight, I mean there wasn’t anything to be intimidated about and you know I guess that goes with just about any fear you may have or ever had.  Right?

I mean think about something that you’ve been afraid of in the past and now you look back on it wondering what I was so afraid of. (laughing) We’ve all been there. We’ve all have those experiences.

Well, real estate investing is just like that.  Okay?  Well anyway, I’m getting sidetracked.  On the phone today, I’m joined by one of the country’s premier investors in multi-family dwellings, Mr. John Dessauer.

Matt: Theriault:  John, welcome to the show.

John Dessauer:  Well thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.

Matt: Awesome. I’m really glad that you are here as well.  So let’s just kind of begin with the beginning. How did you get started investing in real estate?

John:  well you know one of the things that I realized early on was you know, my 9 to 5 job of which I was trained to do through college.  And, uh, once you get that to creative that was never mine.

My aura and never my destiny, you know the cubicle in the corporate world magnifies itself.  I was only interested in much keeping my income in different ways.  I always grow up in apartments. I grew up in Chicago and I was in apartments from the inside looking out.

You know, for me it was a very simple. I got to see all of the tenants that lived in that apartment unit and to pay someone a check a month. I was attracted to that so tenants were growing up without looking, you know from the inside looking out. I said how do I become that apartment owner and taste whatever he is receiving? My income.

I realized that early on also that you know I actually go to my 9 to 5 everyday and cut someone a check on that or I can have other people go to there 9 to 5 and cut me back checks so that’s what I was after. That’s what originally attracted me and multi-family.

Matt:  So it’s really the multi-families strategy that appeal to you right away and that’s what you pursued.

John:  Exactly. Exactly.

Matt:  Now that you’re there, I mean now that you are an active, uh, mutli-family investor, what is it you like best about your strategy?

John:  Well I think two things, you know I started out with the duplex and grow to just under 1500 units and I’ve realized during that time frame that’s been about 12 to 14 or somewhere in there. I’ve realized two things.

One important thing is establishing value and knowing what you’re buying and how to establish a baseline value with that asset.

Number two, is how do you take that asset and increase the value of it?  That’s what anybody wants to know when they’re investing in real estate is how do we whirl this asset that we own?  Some people do it by what we call “mental appreciation.”  That’s fine.

I’m more interested in the topic of on purpose investing. In other words, what are we doing on purpose to drive the value of that asset?

There’s a lot of different ways to do that. I would take those two things on what I focus most.

Matt:  Got it.  What are some of the, I mean every strategy has its cons as well.  What are some the things that you could do without?

John:  What I could do without?

Matt:  right. That you could do without that you don’t like so much about the business.

John:  Well, a couple, you know I’m going to answer that question because you know like I tell everyone; real estate investing is a tough thing to do.  This isn’t something where you know, you can buy your first property then increase the profit by the hour.

You’re going to have to work at it.  It’s challenging but like anything it’s well rewarding. Usually when something is more challenging, it’s also well rewarded. So the things I guess I don’t like the most is you know the challenges that come up with in today’s world of financing.

I know for you and to be able to under and looking it, getting involve with your stuff. I think that challenging financing scenarios today are here.  They’re probably are going to be here to stay.

So you probably have to find a way to get creative with them so I really turn something that I don’t enjoy a lot and that’s negative financing scenarios and turning them into positive.

I almost think of it like a puzzle. How can I find the right kind of deal creatively?  On the apartment world, if that makes sense. If you compare multi-families to single families and creativity, multi-family property is far out based the creative options that you have with converse in single-families.

Matt:  Right.  Right.  What, uhm, when you are looking at a deal, what are some the things that you really take into consideration that makes it a deal for you?  Is it the actual existing values of the potential value?

John:  Well, yeah.  Great question. I think there are two things. I want to go back to that value playing and you just said that right there. Making it true that number one, I am buying it at a discount to market. I got to make sure that that happens.

Number two, I’m analyzing a property. I got to make sure there is a play in it. In other words, if I can do some things specifically to the property to drive its value over the 12 to 24 months or 36 months.  That’s the time frame.

If I could put those two things for example, I buy a property under market and put a play together on it. I probably move forward so those are the two baseline things that I look got when I’m analyzing.

Matt:  Uh hm. Do you sell anything or do you pretty much hold everything that you buy?

John:  Well, you know, I think that you know that market changes consistently. Changes are here.  Changes are going to be here forever. I think you got to think that strategy you apply it to real estate investing.

You know if I’m going to buy and hold every single property and at the same time you’re not going to fix and flip every property you buy. You got to kind of take that change and say, well what’s appropriate to the deal that I have and the market that I am in.

And if you do those two things and go, hey I’m going to sell some of these. I’m bringing them to the other side of the market. Or I’m going to buy and hold these because they’re an excellent cash flow play.

So it really depends on your market that your market in, your property or asset that you own, and personal preference as well. You know, what personal financial goals are and why you got involved in real estate in the first place.

Matt:  Right. Right.  You said you’re up to 1500 units.  Is that current?

John:  Well, it’s been the most I’ve owned one time.

Matt:  Okay.

John:  And you know, I would say that over the last couple of years I’ve tried to simplify where we can in our portfolio just because you know again it comes to that, you know, hey have I taken this asset to the highest potential at least for the next 5 to 10 years.

And the ones that I’ve seen and done that with are typically put on the market.  Others that I think that I’ve got more of a play with, I’ll hold those a little bit longer.

Matt:  So right now, I mean are you active?  How many deals a year are you doing?

John:  Uhmm, I hold down over the last probably two years when I have because of several reasons. Number one because I think the market is changing.  The commercial market especially has really identified a little bit of a bump with regard to properties that are booking to get refinanced and they can’t.

So I see lots of opportunities there starting this year, 2012 and 2013 so I’m kind of like putting dry powder to approach that market subsequently.  Another thing it was for me, you know for those of you who hang out with me for the last three years.

And Matt, I know you have a little bit, you know in simplification mode, there’s no doubt about it that the larger you grow in real estate investing and property, you got to have a system in place to manage that.

At some point in your career, you can say, you know, I need to adjust a little bit. I need to make sure that I am running more efficiently where I am right now and businesses and entrepreneurs kind of go through that.

So I’ve been through that adjustment over the last two years. It’s been wonderful where we’re much leaner and much more efficient.  We use a lot of cloud technology to run our properties and property management so I’ve been focused on that the last full 18 to 24 months.

Now we’re kind of enduring those for an acquisition phase.  It’s the perfect timing because the web market with respect to those refinancing models I’ve discussed earlier.

Matt:  Can you kind of, uh, clarify I can imagine this maybe loaded question or deep question but you can answer this briefly as you want.  Between what your business complicated look like and what are you aiming for it to be simplify, what’s the difference between those two?

John:  Can you repeat the first part, again Matt? I missed that.

Matt:  Sure. So you said you’re in simplification mode, so what does your business look like when it’s complicated and what does it look like now that it’s simplified?

John:  Yeah.  Great, uh, wonderful question.  Well, a complicated business today and if I just target this course, Real Estate Investing Multi-Family Property Management, a complicated business today is one that is overloaded with paper or when it’s overloaded with files, with papers and offices answering phones or all of the above.

Now I am saying you don’t need people.  I want to make sure I want to highlight that but what I am saying is company use technology today to make our business more efficient.

So what we have done over the last two years is we’ve taken rooms of files, applications, supporting documents, credit reports, and things like that.  We beat the ties all of those files.  All of those files, not only do we store on our hard drives but it’s backed up by the clouds so we have access to those files anywhere we go in the country.

All of our employees now have shared access to those files so if I make, you know say I have Smith’s apartment in Chicago, Illinois. And I have a property manager on site that has a new tenant coming in so we’ve got a new application and a new lease.

When they add that file to the online file, I can be in before the key is and open that same file up, look at that same application, and look at that lease and it’s all done through the Clouds.  Not only can we access our back up system and our files and important documents but it also acts as a shared file system for easy access for all of the teams.

So that is one way we’ve become simpler.  We really implemented that same type of strategy throughout all of our business so that you know we really take advantage of our company and be good, efficient entrepreneurs.  It really kind of shows in our bottom line. We don’t need the office space anymore.

We don’t need the, some of our personnel anymore.  We’re kind of a double-edged sword because we had to let go of our personnel. It is a little tough but implementing technology for that.

In today’s market, you’ve got to be competitive.  You’ve got to be probably more importantly creative in order to improve your bottom line. So that’s kind of what we focus on.

Matt:  So does swooshing down the expenses a little bit right on the income?

John:  That’s really the same with multifamily units in general.  You’ve got to make sure that you are focused on thriving income and decreasing expenses.  That translates into two things; a higher cash flow for you and the second thing is an increase value on the asset that you own.

Matt:  Right.  Right.  You know, I know you are an instructor.  You’ve had hundreds if not thousands of students come to your classroom.  It’s certainly one of the favorite classes that I’ve been to.

From your students that you’ve noticed that have achieved success and have actually gone out and produce great results.  What are some personality traits or characteristics among them that you find common?

John: Well, if you’re going to be a multi-family unit property management.  You got to have a sense of humor.

Matt: (laughing)

John: You know because you will come across the craziest deals.  If I’m looking, hopefully it’s going to put those together but we are going to put together a reality show with multi-family units.

It’s going to be popular one on TV. I can assure you but uh, with sense of humor, I also think that you need to have a sense of assertive.  This assertiveness is not one for the faint of heart and also one for a person that needs everything perfect before they take action.

I almost recommend taking action when you don’t have all the pieces aligned.  There’s about experience being your best teacher.  You know, I consider myself a good teacher but I’ve often learned about it from actually doing it myself even when I don’t know everything there is to know about in a particular piece of property or market.

It’s when I push myself to take action and act as if I did know is when I get the best results.  So I think those are the personality traits that I would probably lean on the most.  When you do that, you’d be pretty successful.

Matt:  Got it.  Now that a biggie because I pretty much purchased my first multi-family building acting as if I’ve learned a ton.  It’s been invaluable education.

John:  Absolutely.  Congratulations by the way.

Matt:  Thank you.  Thank you.  You know what, I mean it’s one of the success stories that you don’t hear about is I’m very grateful for your class and your teachings because without that class I wouldn’t have ever thought that that was possible.

John:  Very cool.

Matt:  Thanks.  You bet.  You bet.  So I kind of know the answer to this question because let’s see next is do you need a lot of money to be successful in multi-family?  And I mean I know the quick answer like this first deal that I did.

I didn’t use one penny of my own money to make this happen.  But you know this is just my first one like in the long run; do you need a lot of money to be successful?

John:  Well, you know, there is a saying out there, if you want to make, you know, a million dollars in real estate or a million dollars in business.  You start with two million.

Matt:  (laughing)

John:  Because that’s true.  Mismanaged opportunity and mismanaged businesses can you know put you in a position where you lose money quickly.  What I would recommend is they can make an inventory of your resources and really make sure that you identify with what you have to spend if you might decide that hey, I don’t have a lot to spend or I don’t have a lot of money to put down on the property.  That’s fine too.  At least you know where you’re starting.

It’s kind of like that scenario when you are at a mall and so we have that same experience because we are, I am surrounded by women in my house.  I’d like to say that not the women you would say, “My wife and two kids or daughters.”

Matt:  (laughing)

John:  All of my dogs are girls so I’m surrounded by females but when you go to the mall and you’re in the mall and you’re looking at directory.  The dot says that you are here.

That’s kind of what you have to do with your resources and once you identify whether you got money to invest or you don’t have money to invest.  That’s going to dictate what your blueprint is.

Once you know the blueprint then you can kind of take specific actions steps in order to achieve your goal.  That might means to buy a 16-unit building, a 20-unit building or whatever that is; you got to have a goal to that process first.

Matt:  Got it.  Do you need a lot of time or could someone invest in multi-family on a part time basis?

John: Uhmm, I tell people that time is always more valuable than money.  The more time, the better.  I might put in a lot of money but no time. I know the opposite with no money and a lot of time so I think time is definitely a resource that you got to consider.

I tell people that the more time you have to involve in this, to understand your market, to find opportunity, to build relationships with investors. The better off you’re going to be.

The problem that I see most often is that people don’t have a lot of time or they don’t think they have a lot of time.  And you know what, just a simple exercise of managing your priorities.

In managing that priority system, things like TV and belonging to organizations that may not be giving you much of a return.  You kind of have to look and go through and decide like, hey if I really want to do this then I got to make the priority.

And you know going to the Oaks Club two times a week or whatever may not be as important for you as putting your research in and developing relationships or networking or watch TV and things like that may not be as important.  So if you go through that, I think you can find the time.

Matt:  Right.  Right.  ‘Cause particularly it has a lot to do with the reason you are investing in the first place.

John:  Exactly.

Matt:  Absolutely.  So let’s kind of take a general walk through to your typical deal beginning with how you find your deals?  What’s your favorite source or sources of finding your deals?

John:  Uhmm, sorry I got a dog sitting right next to me.  Uhm, I think the best way that I find deals is through networking.  If you are going through some things like MLS and you know other avenues like that, you’re going to a place where everyone is going.

I would really recommend setting up relationships and networking with people that are good, giving you opportunities in the multi-family business.  Those deals that come from those avenues, you need to set them apart.  The deals that are listed on the MLS or places like Loop Net and things like that.

If you go where everyone else is going, you’re going to have everyone else’s results.  So whatever you can do to separate from that, you are better off.

Matt:  Right. I couldn’t agree with you more there.  So when you find a deal when you network to put something on your desk for you to review, what are some of the things that you look at first that indicate right on the surface that indicate that there maybe a deal there?

John: Well, you first got to go back to the door I talked about earlier and that’s value.  It’s about understanding the market and areas of value.  What, that building or that complex would be worth specifically in that market at what I call “par.”

In a normal environment, let’s say that building is worth $500,000.  You know that because of several different things.  One of them being cap rate.  Cap rate is a way that you kind of like identify the price tag of the income stream that you’re buying from that apartment building.

And you got to know specifically what that is in that market.  It differs in every single market.  Once you know that then you can go and look at the opportunity and say you know, the way this opportunity is priced or the way I can buy this property significantly below what market value would be so for instance, the $450,000 or $425,000 market.  That’s the first thing I would look at.

Matt:  Got it.  What are some things that you review right away that could be deal breakers for you?

John:  Well, usually what a deal breaker for me is you know, if it’s priced too high or if it’s priced at market or if priced exactly at market value and the seller is inflexible or maybe if I don’t see an opportunity to drive value by doing certain things like raising rents or the highest in the market.

Those types of deals could probably be turning off because there’s a lack of opportunity then you’re going to have a lack of returns.  So I’d rather focus on properties with better scenarios at that.

Matt: Got it.  That’s general standard basically.

John:  You make money on apartment buildings?  Absolutely.

Matt:  I was saying, when you analyze, you’re pretty much just looking for the opportunity or if there’s a good opportunity to go.

John: Absolutely. I was just going to, yeah, if there is no opportunity I move on but if you look at the National Statistics rental demand is growing significantly in the metro market in the country.  On average, rental rates are growing by at least 4% in every major market.

So that’s a pretty strong rent growth.  And it really boils down to supply and demand.  Most apartment buildings are going to have opportunity unless they’re priced at higher points of the market both in sales price and rental rate.

Those are examples of properties that I stay away from and I kind of focus my attention to properties that are under market value and maybe under rental market value.  It is either the rent that they charge or under market rent.

Matt:  Got it.  Okay so you got a deal that’s presented to you and you’ve analyzed it.  You see the opportunity.  Is there any specific way or method or protocol that you go through to present your offers to get the most effect on this or to increase acceptance?

John:  You know, usually today in all cash offer, we definitely get someone’s attention.  Those are the challenges so I often tell people if they have an avenue for all cash.  You probably would do it because you could probably get a discount to the price because of that.

Another thing to do would be to be make sure you close quickly so instead of 45 days. Close 40 days or close in 30 days or close in 15 if you have the availability to do that.

Other than that I think you know, you can find out what problem the seller is trying to solve. Whenever there is a property for sale, there’s a problem to be solved.

The owner must retire or unfortunately there’s sickness or death in the family where someone has inherited the building or they just don’t like the property management anymore.

I mean you can notice of your offers by solving bad issues but if you can take note of that in your offer, I think that is another way to get a notice more than others.

Matt:  Right.  Good strategy.  When once you take ownership of the property and this is one of the most fascinating things I enjoyed about your class because I’ve never heard of the term “forced appreciation.”

John:  Yeah.

Matt:   It almost sounds illegal. (laughing) But can you kind of go over and I am actually asking somewhat for selfish reasons as well because I am just putting my first tenants in my building this week.

What are your some favorite ways or to increase the value of the building?  How do you do that? Kind of like go in to those how small, little increments have a big impact on the value.

John:  Yeah.  Now that’s a little bit more of a detailed answer than I think we have time for it.  That’s a whole day lesson probably.  But I think I can give you the Cliff Notes version.

Matt:  Sure.  No problem.

John:  I think the best thing you can do especially on apartment buildings, 5-units and over, its value system is based on how much any shape, sorry that’s my dog, Conan saying hi as well.

Matt: (laughing)

John:  When you look at how a building has an income, you kind of go along and really make sure that you’re putting a plan together in which you operate on that income.  What do I mean by that?

Well, that operating income is achieved by taking the operational income of things like rents or money for the laundry, facility, or any kind.  Subtract out your operating expenses things like taxes, insurance, maintenance, management, and any of your MLI.

If you can increase that MLI, you can drive the value significantly.  There are two ways and only two ways to achieve or increase your MLI.  That’s either by raising your operational income or number two lowering the operational expenses.

So some ways I do that especially in this market, one is by raising rents so I’ll look at supply and demand in that market. I’ll find what the market rent should be and I’ll drop rents according to an appropriate percentage.

If rents in that market are $700 or I’m sorry, in that building that we are looking at are $700, and I know I can raise rents by 4%.  I’m going to increase the rent by $28 per unit per month.

So let’s just say we are talking about 10-unit building, what I will do is I will take $28 per unit so there’s 10 units. That’s $288 for the month then I’ll take that $288 and annualize that for the year so Matt, if you got a calculator in front of you.  Take $288 and times that by 12 for me.  What do you got?

Matt:  Uh, the match calculator is terrible.

John:  Well I could probably do it real quickly here.  Hold on one second.

Matt:  Okay.  $288.  What’s the next part?

John:  Yeah. If you take $288 and multiply that by 12.  What do you get?

Matt:  $3,456.

John:  Okay.  Now take $3456, let’s just take a cap rate in that market.  Let’s just say it’s 8.  3456 divided by 0.08.  What do you get?

Matt:  $43,200.

John:  Okay.  So by raising someone’s rent by $28,000, you give yourself a personal raise of about $3,500.  And you’ve increased the value of the property. What did you say? By $43,000?

Matt:  Yeah.

John:  $43,000.  The reason that it is because that system capitalizes on any income increase or net income increase you do. That’s how apartments are valued so that’s why it is so important to get in there and try to find ways to raise income and lower your expenses because you always capitalize and increase the value exponentially.

Matt:  Perfect.  That’s exactly what I wanted you to go over so thank you.  The cliff notes were awesome.

John:  No problem.

Matt:  could you probably piece these together based off your answers because your answers were very thorough but if you lost today everything, John, and had to start over, you know, what would you start building in the morning?

John:  Uh, well, first I would take some time off.  You know, losing everything is stressful so I would just take time off and probably be a beach person for awhile.  Hang out at the beach, you know.  Have a couple of beer.

The best thing that people can arm themselves with today is knowledge. If you lose everything today, so what? What do you do the next morning? Great question.  My advice is to take some time off.

I know it sounds counterintuitive or maybe modest or aggressive that some people might want to hear it but you know what? Life is short.  If you lose everything, take some time off doing anything and realize how important life is.

That’s number one so I’ll definitely do that.  Two, is I am an entrepreneur.  And entrepreneurs do things that other people don’t do but can do. So I would probably go back to the drawing board and start a business. It could probably be real estate.

It would probably be multi-family. I always start looking for opportunities in finding ways creatively to buy real estate with no money down or very little money down.

So I would just start over. I think that’s the confidence that education can give you knowing that you are going to come across tough times and hardship. It’s almost like a life insurance policy in a way that you could lose everything but you got that knowledge. No one can take that away from you.

You just start over. You just hit the reset button and go from there. I mean there’s a lot of confidence that’s built with that.  I think that everybody has to realize that you all go through ups and downs.

You might have some of your people listening to this right now that are either in a downfall of their lives or just come off from that.  I guess the best advice that I can give them is to take a deep breath, breath, and let’s get to work.

Matt:  Nice.  So someone listening today and said that Johnny guy is cool and that multi-family thing sounds pretty cool. I am going to give that a try.  I’m going to start tomorrow morning. What are your top three that you would be or you would want to give to that person?

John:  Three things quickly I can tell you that matter the most.   Number one, you got to be armed and dangerous with not weapons as in a traditional measure but weapons of knowledge. You got to get the education to know what you are doing.  That’s number one.

Number two, you got to build your network. And network with every one you know from the butcher, the baker, the candle stick maker.  You got to talk to everyone about what you do because everyone walk on this planet is somehow associated with real estate.

There’s probably not one person, Matt that you could name.  Everybody you’ve met in your entire life that has not lived in a piece of real estate. It might be a mansion. It might be a cardboard box but it’s a piece of real estate so network, network, and network.

Finally, number three, you got to take consistent action.  Those people that don’t take action and they get paralysis by analysis or they get intimidated by real estate in general or financing.

Those are the people that are going to have delayed results.  You got to take action on a consistent basis.  Typically when that’s done, those turn in, those fruits of labor turn in to something spectacular.

Matt:  Good. Good. You know, John, as I’ve mentioned you’re also an instructor.  I mean you’re also an investor and also a teacher and also a coach.  What d you like best about teaching and coaching?

John:  I guess the best thing for me I’m writing my third book right now and I’ve speak at a lot of public speaking. I’ve just got off a bunch of trips where I’ve spoken all over the country. I think that the best thing for me is when I teach I become a better investor.  When I invest, I become a better teacher.

And I love it. I love the interaction with people. I love delivering knowledge but the best thing is when I can actually see someone take that knowledge, take action on it, and get results. That’s the best thing for me so you know if I have to sum it up on one thing that I like the most that would be it.

Matt:  Awesome.  Well this is a very good interview.  Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule. Is there anything that I didn’t ask that you feel I should have?  Or any parting words?

John:  Uhmm, other than you know, what I see for the future of for this world we call “real estate investing” and I can’t think of anything I guess let me answer that question that I asked myself and your listeners.

Matt:  (laughing)

John:  I see some wonderful opportunities.  I do see some challenges ahead though.  And if you are not ready for that challenge with opportunity and challenge of action, you’re caught up in the negativity.

We have a lot of stuff to do. We’ve got a lot of issues to solve. I think one of those issues is providing people with good quality rental housing.  That’s the big housing challenge we have on our horizon amongst the others.

You know our national debt and other things and inflation. But if you don’t look at those challenges as opportunities and you don’t look at things like devastation and crashing and burning as a way to start over, I think you’re missing the boat. And so I’m just pumped about what we’ve got coming up on the horizon.

I think everyone that you’re associated with and that’s listening to this interview right now, you got to be engaged. You got to look at it as a way that you can forward your personal life, your business life, and all your opportunities so that’s the message I would leave for everyone.

Matt:  Great message.  Well thanks a ton, John.  You’re a wealth of information.  Thanks for being so generous with your information. If something comes up in the future, would you be open to coming back?

John:  Absolutely, Matt.

Matt:  Awesome.  Thanks a lot, John.  You have an awesome day.  We will talk soon.

John:  Okay.  Sounds great.  Thank you.

Matt:  You bet. Take care.

(Music playing)

Mike:  Hey, Matt.   Mike Freeman here from Texas. I just want to let you know that I really appreciate your real estate investing course. I have spent a small fortune to learn about it. I’ve been thinking about this and studying it and researching for a couple of years when I ran across your course.

And there’s a lot of information in there that just help me get the idea to just go ahead and do it and just recently re-acquired our first two properties.  One for income and buying a home and one for a flip so thanks again and I appreciate it and we’ll keep watching.  Thanks.

(Voice Over):  Thank you for spending this time with Matt Theriault and the Epic Real Estate Investing podcast.  When you have time, stop by iTunes to leave your comments and let us know what you think of this show.

And if you haven’t done so already, get started investing today by visiting FreeRealEstateInvestingCourse.com to access Matt’s free course on how to deals, no money required.  Until next time. To your success, to your success, to your success.

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