Dr. Matt Motil, a real estate investor and agent, joins Matt Theriault for Epic Real Estate’s Thought Leader Thursday. After working with hundreds of investors from all over the world, Dr. Matt Motil has come to share his views on real estate investing over the last 20 years, what’s different about his own investing courses, and the first 3 things you should do if you want to fire your boss.
What You Will Learn About Dr. Matt Motil – Fire Your Boss:
- How Dr. Matt Motil found his real estate investing start in the construction industry
- How he became aware of a better lifestyle
- Why Dr. Matt Motil waited so long to fire his boss
- What he lost in the 2008 crash (and what he learned)
- How his view of real estate investing has changed over the last 20 years
- His preferred investing method
- The major flaw with seminars that cost tens of thousands of dollars (and why Dr. Matt Motil doesn’t attend them)
- What’s different about Dr. Matt Motil‘s courses
- The first 3 things you should do if you want to fire your boss
- How to get your hands on his new book
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Speaker 1: This is Theriault Media.
Matt Theriault: All right. Hello. I am Matt Theriault of the Epic Real Estate Investing Show, and this is Thought Leader Thursday.
Okay. So today I’m joined by a real estate investor and agent. He’s had the pleasure of working with hundreds of investors from all over the world and helped them to grow massive wealth and passive income through remote real estate investments. He also leads a small retail real estate team working with buyers and seller, servicing all 50 states. In his spare time, he taught college courses as an adjunct professor at a handful of colleges and universities. So please help me welcome today to the show, Dr. Matt Motil.
Matt, welcome to Epic Real Estate Investing.
Dr. Matt Motil: Thanks for having me. Appreciate you having me on.
Matt: Sure, you bet. Matt, before we dig into your business. What were you doing just prior to getting involved in real estate?
Dr. Matt: I’ve kind of been off and on in real estate since I was in college. So I would say high school. But my main gig before I was able to quit. I always say quit and fire my boss forever and do real estate full-time was I was in construction. So I got an engineering degree, and then went out into the field as an engineer. Then ended up in the construction industry. I did that for about 18 years.
Matt: So what was it about real estate that you originally found so attractive?
Dr. Matt: I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad when I was about 19 because I saw people living lavish lifestyles, ad I was raised in the Midwest. I went to college in Ohio and grew up in Ohio and Indiana and stuff. People don’t have tons and tons and tons of money in the Midwest. It’s just not that way. It was like, “How can I do more, be more, have more? How is that even a possibility?” So I liked the title Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So I checked it out. That really kind of turned me on to the idea of growing wealth through real estate.
Matt: Got it. No, that book has transformed many lives. Certainly transformed the thinking, rendered many people certifiably unemployable.
Dr. Matt: Right.
Matt: One thing that kind of fell short and the critics kind of all noted this over the years is that the concepts and the theory are spots on, right on point, but it fell a little short when it came to the how to. So once you had that idea in your head, how did you get started?
Dr. Matt: Well, to be perfectly honest, that’s a great insight because that was really what it was for me. So here I am 19. I had no idea how to get into the real estate business, right? There really is a lack of how to in that stuff. So I just started. I headed down that path of the Rich Dad Series. So I just kept reading. I went to Cashflow Quadrant. I did like tax loops of real estate. I’m just like, “This is amazing!” I had no idea. So really my thought was being very naïve at 19 or whatever was, “Okay. I got to go and finish my degree. I got to go out into the industry. I got to make good money so that I can go to the bank and put 25% down and get an investment loan and start buying rental properties.” The reality is I know now obviously years later is that you don’t need to use your own money. It’s actually better not to use your own money. It’s a whole lot faster. But that was my thought process.
I was like, “Well, I don’t know what I’m going to do. So I better just continue down this path,” and real estate, in my mind at that time, was that was going to be my side hustle. So that was how I was going to build wealth and how I was going to leave a legacy and all that kind of stuff. But I needed my job, I needed my career to leverage that. When obviously looking back on it 20 so years ago now, that’s really not the case. But I didn’t know any better.
Matt: That seems to be the springboard for a lot of successful entrepreneurs is they didn’t know any better so they just did it.
Dr. Matt: Yeah. It’s funny though because I let fear get in the way a lot. I mean, it really wasn’t … I quit three years ago. Now I was able to go into do real estate and investing full time, but I worked in an industry for a really long time. A lot of it was the fear of the unknown and not really knowing what I was doing and just letting kind of life get in the way that really stopped me from taking that leap a whole lot sooner. I mean, I’m glad for my experiences and everything like that, but I wish I had started a whole lot sooner than I did.
Matt: Right. Right. Yeah, I think we all have that thought, right?
Dr. Matt: Sure.
Matt: If we only knew then what we know now, what could be possible?
Dr. Matt: Yep.
Matt: So how long have you been in the business then? Since your 19 and how old are you now? You look, what, 21, 22.
Dr. Matt: Yeah. No, I’ll be 38 here in another month or so.
Dr. Matt: So I’ve been full time in real estate for about three and a half years now. But we just kind of did it as … We fell into it on accident really and just started flipping houses, like house hacking. So we buy a house that was distressed that we moved into, and I was handy so I just fixed it up while we lived there and then sold it. Made a profit. The first time I did it I was actually transformed from St. Louis to Phoenix. So I had to sell it fast, and I had just finished a bunch of work when we had agents come through to tell us what it was worth. They were like, “Well, you can sell it for this.” I’m like, “Really? Holy cow.” It really opened my eyes too. The books that I read were really more geared towards buy and hold investing. This was before HG TV made flipping houses popular. We were like, “Wow. I just made some really nice money.” We rolled the equity into the next one, and we did that all the way up until 2008. Then literally watched all that equity disappear. We justified it by saying, “Well, it was never really my money, to begin with.” Bullshit. But that was [inaudible 00:06:06][crosstalk 00:06:06].
It was definitely my money. We just foolishly rolled it into the next deal instead of pulling it out.
Matt: Well, don’t beat yourself up on that one because there’s a lot of people in the same boat, right?
Dr. Matt: Yeah, and a lot of people got hurt a whole lot worse than I did. But yeah, that was painful for sure.
Matt: Right. Okay. So 20 years from when your first interest was sparked to now, 20 years or so. How is your view of real estate changed over the years?
Dr. Matt: I was always fascinated with it. I still love it. I still like it. I think it’s one of those things though is that when you are doing something else and you would love to make your hobby your full-time gig, you like sensationalize it. So it’s like, “Oh, I would love to do this. I would love to do this.” Then there are days where I just go, “I don’t really want to look at houses today.” So it does have the ability to become a little bit of a grind. After being involved in a number of different industries and kind of being tech savvy and things of that nature, sometimes it’s like very, very repetitive. The real estate business. I mean, I think it’s amazing and there’s probably no better way to make money and to make wealth in a very short period of time than to do real estate investing. But it’s not the sexiest thing out there really. I mean, flipping houses are, but I’m not a fan to be perfectly honest.
Dr. Matt: We will flip houses if it’s a great deal, the numbers make sense and all that kind of stuff. But the bang for your buck, I would rather just either buy and hold or wholesale.
Matt: Right. Totally. I’m like mind there. So you have a podcast and you have a course. So you are an educator. You teach courses at colleges. What’s one piece of bad advice you there that you see or hear frequently that just really makes your skin crawl?
Dr. Matt: I don’t know if it’s necessarily a piece of advice, but I’m not a huge fan of the guru seminars. We have a course on wholesaling. It takes somebody literally from zero experience in real estate whatsoever to getting their first deal done. It’s just one path. I mean, there’s tons and tons of ways you can get deals done. So instead of inundating people with like, “Here’s all the ways you could do real estate.” It’s like, “Here’s one path. It’s very simple. It’s very low money out of pocket. You don’t need credit and you get deals done.” But there’s this stuff that we see all the time where it’s especially with the TV personalities. Like Tarek and Christina before they got divorced. They’re coming to Cleveland and they’re going to do a seminar and come. It’s free. The thing is you get there and it’s not them. It’s basically just a bait and switch to try to get you to sign up for a three-day thing, which is basically just a big commercial for the $40,000 to $60,000 guru program. Those irritate me. I know that you were probably looking for something different.
People tell me, “Oh, I just spent $40,000 on a seminar.” I’m just like, “You know you could’ve bought a whole house for that, right?”
Matt: But then what? What do you do next after you spot on?
Dr. Matt: But the thing is what irritates me the most about that kind of thing is that the majority of the people I talk to that go, “Well, I just spent $40,000 on this,” or, “I spent $60,000 on this.” I won’t say specific names of the programs or whatever. Is that six months later, 12 months later, they still haven’t taken action. That to me is what I go, “That’s wrong.” If I’m going and investing that kind of capital, we better be doing deals like right away.
Matt: You got to take action on the information that you acquire, right?
Dr. Matt: Right. Well, so that’s exactly it. So is it bad information that people can’t implement or is it just a personality flaw of the person who spent that much money? Is it they’re just not an action taker?
Matt: Right. Right. I have personal experience with that being that when I got started, I spent $22,000 on a program. That’s when $22,000 was absolutely unheard of. So that was probably 13-14 years ago. There weren’t any courses at that time at that price point. But it was a two-year program. It was taught remotely, and I think about this all the time. When I educate and I help people get their results that are the results that they’re looking for as well, is that I sat in a room. I mean, this was like when it was a really big deal. There weren’t a lot of people doing this. The rooms were really crowded. So just the fulfillment, the actual education part of it, not the sales part of it, the education part, there’d be 100-200 people in the room, and they’re all in there listening in the same environment with the same materials listening to the same instructor giving the exact same information to everybody.
Still, I look back on this day, and I’ve not stayed close to that community, but there’s a lot of mutual friends and indirect interactions that I have. I think there’s only out of … That was over a three or four-year program. I think more than 30,000 students went through that program. When I think about the people that I know that are actually out still doing it, I mean, I can count them on one hand. Five or six people that are really doing the real estate full time. I didn’t know all 30,000. So there may be more, but I should know more than that because I knew a lot of people there.
It’s something I always struggle with and I continue to and we get closer and closer all the time. We’re always making improvements, but inside of your course, inside of your teaching, how do you inspire people to actually take action? I mean, they got to bring themselves to the game as well. You can only give them so much and they got to connect the dots.
Dr. Matt: Yeah. I think the biggest thing because ultimately at the end of the day, if you’re somebody who is in the education space or you want to be in that space and you want to impact lives because I think that’s the reason why we get into it is I think we have a support group for people. So they do the course. It’s all digital and all that kind of thing. But we put them in a group, and so we’re in there and I physically go in and I ping people on a regular basis. I’m like, “Where you at? What are you doing? What are you taking action? What do you need help with?” The saying, “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.” I mean, to a certain extent, there is that. But at the same time too, I think if you are engaged with people and try to find out what their sticking point is and try to help them get through it. I mean, that, we find, is a little bit higher of success. But I think the follow-up and the continuity after just purchasing a course are really critical because it’s like a study at home guide. You can buy the book, but it might sit on your shelf forever. You never open.
Matt: I got a lot of those.
Dr. Matt: I got a huge queue. I’m like, “Oh, I want to read this.” Then it’s like, “All right. Well, after I read the 30 that are ahead of it.”
Matt: Exactly. My audible bookshelf is quite extensive. I’m going to get to that one. I’m going to get to that one. Every time I got to an event I hear someone mention a really good book or every time I talk to someone say on an interview they mention a book. I go buy it right away. Then it sits there forever.
Dr. Matt: That’s like my reminder, right? I go to audible and I’m like ‘buy’. Then I just know I don’t have to remember that book because it’s in my audible library.
Matt: Yeah. I don’t need to worry about that one anymore because I own it. Fortunately, I’ve read the right few. I focus on the right few and do what they say. The rest is just in case learning, as we call it.
Cool. So let’s get really practical here. I visited our website and seen there is all around firing your boss. This is something you had experience with I guess about three years ago when you went full time. So if someone came to the conclusion that this is what must be done for themselves, I must fire my boss, what are the first three things that they should do?
Dr. Matt: One is I tell people because I put together a guide. It’s a free thing we have on our website. It’s called the Pissed Off Guide To Financial Freedom.
Dr. Matt: The whole idea is obviously if you’re upset about being employed, then you get pissed off after a certain point.
Matt: I like it.
Dr. Matt: Also the idea that I believe that if you’re a millennial to mid-40s, you probably at some point are feeling like you’ve been lied to with society of hurting us through what I call the middle-class trap. But I tell everybody you need to have a budget for your personal life. You got to get really serious about your expenses because if you want to quit your job, you’re going to have to do something different to generate money to replace that income. The cheaper you can live, obviously the faster you can make that happen. So I think a lot of times is people go, “Well, I really want to do my own thing. Want financial freedom. I want this and I want that.” It’s like, “Okay. Great. You make $50,000 a year, and you’re going to Starbucks every day. You’re spending $150 a month on coffee. Is this really what you should be spending your money on?” So the number one thing I tell everybody, you need to make a budget.
So the first thing is to make a budget. Then kind of like part 1B is you need to get really serious about where you’re spending your money and what you can cut. You need to cut everything that you possibly can to do that. Then step two is I tell everybody and it’s kind of like there’s a book out called Start At The End I think is what it’s called. It’s a great book. It’s kind of the idea if you know who Frank Kern is. Frank had a talk that he did years ago called Core Influence. It’s a two-part thing. Part one is basically figuring out who your ideal client is if you’re in sales. The second part is really designing your ideal lifestyle. So what I always tell everybody is step two is what do you envision on where you want to go because when you start with the end in mind, you can reverse engineer the entire process. Then it can get really super clear on how am I spending my time, and is how I’m spending my time aligned with my big goal? Am I spending my money on the right things? Am I spending my time no the right things? Are my actions progressing me towards what it is that I ultimately want to achieve?
So those three things are a really good foundational point. To get very, very clear on what you want and where you want to go.
Matt: Okay. So number one was to make a budget. Specifically look at your expenses. See what can be reduced there, right?
Dr. Matt: Yep.
Dr. Matt: Two was cut your budget.
Matt: Cut your budget. Slash your budget.
Second thing was to start at the end and kind of reverse engineer the path?
Dr. Matt: Yep.
Matt: Okay. Then the third thing was …
Dr. Matt: Get really clear on your time. So I recommend everybody to do a time study because the reality is if you’re going to … Ultimately, what you’re going to need to do is you’re going to need your side hustle to replace your main hustle. So there’s only so many hours in the day. If you’re working a job for somebody else, which is where the whole fire your boss thing comes in, you’re probably working at least 40 hours a week, maybe more. So you’re going to need to fit this side hustle in around your normal job. Hopefully, some kind of self-care because the problem is you’re going to be burning at both ends. So if you’re not taking care of yourself, you’re going to go down in a hurry. Then around family time. If you got a spouse and kids and all that kind of stuff, you got to fit all this in. So I think time blocking is huge. But the thing is as you’re blocking out your time and you’re figuring out where you’re spending your time, you have that clarity of where am I going and what am I doing and why am I doing this? It helps to really kind of get all that together.
Matt: Nice. Nice. Good advice.
Dr. Matt: A lot of people are like, “Well, you got to figure out what you want to do.” You really can kind of plug anything into that. I mean, at the end of the day, we’re obviously this is a real estate show. So we’re passionate about real estate, but not everybody is. While that’s the path that I took and that’s the one I help people do as well. There’s lots of stuff out there. There’s digital marketing. There’s affiliate marketing. You could sell stuff on the internet. E-commerce. There’s all kinds of stuff you can do to make a really good amount of money in a relatively short period of time on the side.
So I guess that would be the fourth step to figure up your passion.
Matt: Sure. I like it. I think that’s before though. Just kidding. Awesome. Matt, it’s been a pleasure. If someone wanted to get in contact with you and learn more about you, what would be the best way for them to do that?
Dr. Matt: The best way is to go to the website drmattmotil.com. M-A-T-T M-O-T-I-L. drmattmotil.com. We’ve got a contact form on there. You can send me a message right there. There’s links to our podcast show. You can get a free copy of my bestselling book there. Just throw us a couple bucks for shipping. You can get the free Pissed Off Guide To Financial Freedom. All that stuff is really the websites really the hub. So that’s the best way to go.
Matt: Nice. That is drmattmotil.com.
Dr. Matt: Correct.
Matt: Perfect. It’s been a pleasure, Dr. Matt Motil. Thanks for being here.
Dr. Matt: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Matt: You bet.
Dr. Matt: It’s been fun.
Matt: Absolutely. Always is. Let’s do it again.
Dr. Matt: Okay.
Matt: Cool. All right. That’s it here at the Epic Real Estate Investing Show. I will see you next week for another episode of Thought Leader Thursday. Take care.